Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

Well the majority of the gradual real terms pay erosion has happened during the coalition and Tory governments, however they have had to deal with the financial crisis, the shutdown of the economy as part of the covid response plus sustained high inflation.

Yes, as I said, some will use it interchangeably, but many will see an anti-tory rent-a-mob and switch off to the nuances. That is why I find the mixed messaging unhelpful.

"anti-tory rent-a-mob"

To be fair the Tories are doing a magnificent job proving their incompetence all on their own.

Who in their 20s or early 30s stays in a job for a pension they may or may not receive in their 60s? People keep talking about gold plated pensions at 55 but the current retirement age for younger workers in the NHS is 65 and may well increase. No job is guaranteed for life. Things change.

I'm sorry, I don't have a source for this, but from memory, a BMA activist had the question posed whether they would be inclined to accept a similar offer in England. The response, as I recall, was no, as they are dealing with different people in England compared to Scotland, i.e. demands were higher in England as they are dealing with the Conservatives while in Scotland they are dealing with the SNP. As I've said, I have skin is this game and sympathise with JD, but the BMA appear to be politically motivated. I'm not sure how different a Labour government would be beyond softer rhetoric.

Where are we finding these extra nurses from? You know there is a shortage of nurses too?

And how much are we paying a band 7/8 nurse (they would need to have done their advanced practice and prescribing courses) to work nights? More or less than £32k?

I think public support may wain now that the waiting lists are so long and people are being left to suffer and die. What's the starting salary of an f1 32k according to the BMA. It shouldn't just focus on the money, it's more about patient safety and how a shortage of staff affects that, its catch 22. A lot of older people may think the hours are not as bad as when they were in training, the money is pretty good and it's still a respected profession, but people are dying.

they have had to deal with the financial crisis, the shutdown of the economy as part of the covid response plus sustained high inflation.

I know right? They should've just let the bodies pile high and keep the economy going!

I say this on teachers’ strike threads too.

Even if all teachers and junior doctors are lazy, greedy, uncaring workshy layabouts who deserve our hatred (disclaimer: not my view), they are leaving the profession. In their hundreds.

So what do we do?
There is little more important for society than healthcare and education.

We need to negotiate and improve their pay and conditions. Asap. We need them and are doomed without them. However much you may despise them for going on strike.

Proper negotiation needs to happen. Neither party should leave the room till it’s sorted.

Do you mean similar to "we will always have Dentists?"

7.8m on waiting lists, long before Dr's strike, who is to blame for that? non striking Doctors? or the Government?

@greensleevez I think you just want to have a pop at the government and aren't really interested in discussing the rights and wrongs of Junior Doctors pay and conditions, and how we go about reaching a solution that is acceptable to junior doctors and fair to the tax payer who is also likely to be struggling.

I have my views about the governments covid response, and I suspect you won't like them, but irrespective, we are where we are, in that the country is is not in the best state financially, with the covid response being a huge factor.

Incorrect.

And the govt richly deserves all the flak it gets and more. Its Covid response was grotesquely flawed, ref the lockdown parties, dodgy PPE contracts etc.

You big xxxx!

You argued with me until blue in the face that Scotland wasn't the solution at all!

I suggested to you on numerous posts the Scotland solution and you pooh hoo'ed it.

BMA say lets talk, Govt say No!

But good to see it now "encapsulates your thoughts" what a relief!!!!

Ok so 12% overall?

But no dice still

I really wouldn't be so blasé. The effect of the mass exodus is that many of us are genuinely not able to access care from a doctor in any kind of timely manner. So we may "always have doctors" but if you cannot access care from them, what is the point?

And yet the BMA still rejected it…. I rest my case. Scottish JDs accepted the deal. So doesn’t that tell us everything we need to know?

The BMA is a highly politicised activist movement now and a world away from putting patient safety at the forefront of anything! They see the body count as publicity for the cause. It’s diabolical to think any doctor would associate with such a movement so clearly harmful.

Quite. What IS the point.

We are fast approaching ground zero for the NHS if we are not there already.

EasternStandard
Ok so 12% overall?

More or less.

But if they won't negotiate, the JDs could be asking for 80% or 5% and it wouldn't matter. 35% is what the increase should have been over the last 15 years, it's not been cobbled together. So it's not unreasonable to ask for the same as inflation. But they would likely be happy to discuss lower amounts and better conditions if the government would meet with them.

The government refusing to discuss anything with them is the issue. Not the JDs asking. Its being ignored and a refusal to acknowledge the problem by the people who can do something that is causing this.

Government talks to them, strikes stop. Its very simple.

Same as most the working class population - cost of living crisis.

I think it will take more than the useless government arranging talks to end the strikes, who will be next? Nurses.

They're striking because of a refusal to negotiate. I don't think it'll be an easy fix to make them feel valued after all of this, but the strikes are because they're being ignored. Do something about it, the strikes go away.

But unfortunately, neither the current tories or anyone who may be able tk take over are equipped to fix things. Because everything is broken.

Ok so since they don’t want 35% in one year why not 12% each year over three years

3% in pp is misleading if it’s added to 9%

Not the same deal at all, Scottish doctors got over double what English Docs got in 22/23 (2% vs 4,5% in Scotland) and the Scots got a long term deal on pay restoration.
Which does seem to be the stumbling block in England.

The SNP carried on negotiating during strike action, for some reason, the Govt wont sit down and at least talk.

Aren't Scottish Doctors part of the BMA ?

At this point I don’t think the public are in any mood to make drs feel ‘valued’ when those very same drs have left patients to die.

I think the mood is about to turn very ugly.