Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

It's literally right there in my post: because they are given responsibility of fully qualified doctors when they are not. And because their caseload is too high.

Hopefully the op can spare a moment from her trip to the food bank or rubbing sticks together for heat to update us on her progress….

So you agree that some junior doctors should receive a pay increase?

Taxes are high atm. Either they can stay that way or people would prefer lower

Other countries have different models to the NHS. Aus seems a good one to look at. I’d say without googling to check similar obesity levels, similar age prediction and similar tax rates or maybe lower tax than here

The main differences seem to be rate of private health insurance. Aus generally gets that reducing the tax burden on the state can occur via tax rebates. Afaik without checking for any recent changes both health and education do this

They have nearly half on private health insurance, this gets more disposable income into health overall

They also charge a minimal fee in some cases

I can’t imagine a party being anything but vilified and fried in suggesting either a tax rebate or charge or both

Yes it’s shocking how an fy1 can be left in charge of a post-op ward for example full or really unwell patients. And their supervisor oncall is snowed under in an and e with the consultant in theatre. It was bad enough in ‘my day’ and continues to get worse and worse. I would be terrified if a relative of mine was admitted right now, and would not leave their side.

A decent honest competent government would sorted this out months back
Btw how much does a graduate investment banker get and how much five years in (and don't forget to include bonuses, perks, expenses, cars>

Yes but 10-12% not 35%!

They pay tax though which we need rather than taxpayer paying them

Reading through, just wanted to add, about 15 years ago,my trust brought out £1 per hour parking charges,we were working 12 hours shifts. That's a big wack of money if you work FT,per week. You weren't even guaranteed a space.

If the government offered that, the JDC would probably accept it. Instead, they are refusing to negotiate.

Junior doctors don't actually need support from the public. I'm sure that junior doctors will accept less than 35% but the public needs their support rather than the other way around so perhaps this should be considered rather than refusing to negotiate. Labour have said that they will negotiate.

The government negotiated with the nurses, and settled. They negotiated with the consultants, and settled. The Scottish government negotiated with their JDs, and settled. If they chose to negotiate with our JDs, instead of refusing to meet them, they would be able to settle.

These strikes are because the government is refusing to negotiate. They would be called off tomorrow if they agreed to sit down and negotiate.

JD pay tax too. All working people do.

While I haven't read the whole thread I haven't seen you provide any answers either apart from suggesting removing NHS workers' right to strike (!) and increased AI for healthcare (!!).

Chronic underinvestment in the NHS is the issue here, that is why there are long waiting lists and people don't get the care they need, NOT because NHS workers are striking for 6 days to demand a living wage! Chronic underinvestment is of course a likely Tory strategy so they can drive the NHS to the ground and claim that the model isn't working and that it needs to be privatised.

If you squeeze NHS workers even further there simply won't be enough people willing/able to work for it going forward. Or is your suggestion perhaps the dismantling of the NHS and going full American mode, relying on insurance for healthcare, with those who can't accord insurance left to their own devices? Or privatising healthcare? As everyone knows privatising public services tends to result in improved services doesn't it?

They are not in charge of the ward
The senior nurse is in charge and will give considerable support as they are very experienced
It is often the nurses giving advice to the juniors who need a lot of handholding in their first 6 months in particular
Most skills and knowledge are learned on the job so the first year is a rapid learning year

We need and get constant supervision in the early years? You've clearly not been a junior doctor then, as that comment gives an entirely distorted view of the level of responsibility.

As an F2 (so currently 17 months after starting work) I am the ONLY person in the hospital taking surgical referrals overnight. From A&E or GPs - patients with potentially life-threatening surgical issues. I take the referral, assess them and start treatment. Yes, I can wake up the registrar at the end of the phone if needed but otherwise it's just me. There are many shifts when the nursing staff are even less experienced and certainly not able to hand hold.

It's a incredibly stressful and pressurised job for £16 ph

Wages are quite a bit higher in Aus, ok c o l is higher too in some respects but the avg UK worker cannot afford to pay top up insurances, like Aus and much of Europe do.
Aren't we (as an avg) some 10k worse off than the typical French or Germany worker?

I would like to see charges for some services too but with sooooo many people on in work benefits, sick and retired, would many pay?

Our low wage and low productivity economy is coming back to haunt us once again.

We seem have accepted no NHS dentistry, i wonder if we are heading for an emergency health service too? with anything elective paid for privately.

Where have I posted ‘removing right to strike’ you seem to making this part up for some reason.

And yes AI will likely help with the massive aging population issues we have incoming. It’s not a bad thing we’d sink even more without that as a possibility.

As for the model we use yes we could look at other models for sure, why not? It doesn’t have to be the US one

I meant in charge ‘medically’ as their seniors who should be advising on investigations and medication changes are not contactable. Yes of course the ward manager/senior nurse has overall responsibility of the ward as a whole and nurses offer new doctors loads of support.

@greensleevez i wouldn’t recommend US but here’s a post on Aus

Outside increased tech which will help they may show why their model is working better

I mixed you with another poster but you seem to be thinking along similar lines.

What they said: "Yes I believe that we may have to remove strike action for medics after this, we can’t have people dying needlessly because of a few militant union leaders think it’s okay to hold the country to ransom."

But as I suspected you are arguing for the health insurance model which is just nuts. People really don't know what they have until it's gone.

Well done
However a lot of nurses and paramedics are now diagnosing and treating patients and making similar decisions to yourself

particularly in the community without the benefit of blood tests and X-rays

until you are able to work independently of your supervisor you are not clinically independent so need a team above you
Im not trying to be unkind but you must recognise you are not solely responsible because your patients have in general already been seen by a GP or A and E doctor ( both senior to you ) who will have already made some form of diagnosis for you which is a form of supervision

Like I said the first 6 months is a steep learning curve
you are 17 months qualified so well on the way
Good luck in your career

Because of course, if you choose a caring profession like medicine, you must always put everyone else before yourself, put up with whatever poor conditions you face, ignore any personal struggles you may have, work full time and beyond, never complain, have no work life balance, not be allowed to want to spend your time on hobbies or with family and friends like others do, deal with abuse and aggression, always smile sweetly and show compassion as someone shouts in your face, compare yourself to less fortunate people whose problems are obviously always much worse than your own and take all the blame, guilt trips and nastiness that the general public and media feel entitled to throw at you, all because YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IT WOULD BE LIKE THIS!!!!! 🙄

No one disputes the notion that JDs need a pay rise, the issue is the extraordinary amount they have cobbled together and tried to justify it.

Now they have agreed six days of strikes knowing it will cause death and pain.

Its despicable. How can you use patients as human fodder it is something I just can’t get past.

How any decent doctor can support this action under any circumstances astounds me.

OP should go overseas - better pay and less hours. When the NHS is finally on its knees, people might think about what they pay doctors. Becoming a doctor is really hard - years of study - and only the brightest get the chance. Then there are years of responsibility, shift work and a salary of 29K! And people think that is a good thing - you might not think so when you've got some second-rate locum who can hardly speak English working on you - because the best and brightest won't continue to sign up for medicine - or at least not in the UK.