Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

I'm a "junior" doctor. Started medical school over 15 years ago, been a doctor for 10 years. I'm still a "junior registrar" and won't be a consultant this decade because Ive gone "part time" for childcare reasons (NHS junior doctor full-time is 48 hours...). Mid 30s, I have two kids, a mortgage, rotate to new hospitals endlessly with horrific commutes, pay out my own money for GMC/courses/equipment/indemnity/exams. I guess I will look forward to those megabucks one day... as it is I work nights and weekends and long days in surgery, have a lot of responsibility and 10 years of working experience. I don't think my pay reflects this.

I am very grateful to all the super intelligent DCwho make that decision at 17 and carry through with it. Or who change career later and slog through the years of study and training. I want a well rested GP/ junior doctor/consultant, not one on their last legs from pressure of work, so I support the striking doctors and hope they get a restoration of pay levels. And no, I don’t believe that all nhs staff should be entitled to equal pay rises. Doctors/consultants have the responsibility and carry the can.

Also the posters who believe the role is 100% supervised are completely wrong. You start off FY1 with relatively high levels of supervision, then increasingly independent. Registrars (ST3-ST7/8) are usually unsupervised for out of hours work and very independent. A registrar will usually do surgery solo overnight for example- they will be delivering a baby by c section or fixing your appendicitis or getting you intubated and onto a ventilator in intensive care with no oversight. Which is why when they finally become a consultant they will be highly skilled. We don't have 100% supervision for 10+ years then magically work alone the day we become a consultant!!!

@Newchapterbeckons the government has cumulatively year on year caused the demand for 35%. Maybe they should have gone on strike 6 years ago and only demanded about 15%? But they kept trying to just get on with their job until it got to the point where enough is enough. If they don't demand pay being put back to a scale that reflects the skill, qualifications and stress of the job, when will it be put right?
Should they demand your 13% now and then come back in a year or two and strike for the rest of it? Or have you generally just decided that doctors shouldn't get an amount to reflect the skill and stress of their job?

theDudesmummy · Today 10:37

Have you any idea how much junior doctors have to pay for training, CPD events, exams, insurance etc?

The same as my vet daughter. She studied for 5 years but vets also don't get the NHS Bursary that student doctors get to study medicine.
Similar pay as a graduate doctor but unlikely to ever reach the salary of NHS consultants and locum doctors.

Going to be honest, I don’t have an issue with the strikes per se but the length of this one I think will start to cause serious harm to patients. I don’t know how wards will cope without juniors for such a prolonged period of time. I would say there aren’t enough consultants to cover wards safely day and night. Equally patients are already suffering with the shortage of nursing staff. Care is poor when staffing is stretched, things get missed, mistakes made because of time pressures, poor skill mix.

And now we get to it. You can’t back track 6 years worth of strikes and then come up with an extortionate amount that you think you should have been paid???? Seriously.
And no one gets 13% pay rises!

You are kicking off now because of the COL crisis but that crisis is affecting everyone.

If it reassures you, I am a consultant in my early fifties and will work till 67. And I have never been part time or worked a day private in my life! And I am appreciative of my future pension. Would love it now though as I am so tired!

The NHS bursary is usually £1,000 in the fifth year.

It's more than my daughter ever got!

@Newchapterbeckons

"And now we get to it. You can’t back track 6 years worth of strikes and then come up with an extortionate amount that you think you should have been paid???? Seriously.
And no one gets 13% pay rises!

You are kicking off now because of the COL crisis but that crisis is affecting everyone."

I am kicking off now? Did you miss the bit where I said I don't work for the nhs? I'm in no way medically trained and don't work in a medical field, yet I empathise and support the position of the the junior doctors. Crazy eh?!!

I accept there does seem to be a difference as most of my friends seem to work 50/50 or 30/70 NHS work and privately. Towards the end most just did a single day in the NHS.
Did you choose to not work privately for ethical reasons?

This.

Plus:If you’re eligible for an bursary, the pays your standard tuition fees. Your course tuition fees are paid directly to your university.

I work in a private sector. I got 17.5% last year, because its performance based.

I'm not complaining, but it seems madness that our doctors work as hard as they do and are having to strike to get decent pay because there's been freezes and minimal pay for so many years.

This is awful but also a clear sign that the system is relying on people staying in the junior doctor position for far longer than they should have to. If you took out all the ‘trainee teachers’ of a school for 5 days it would be noticeable but wouldn’t leave the school unable to provide a safe level of education in the same way.

If like ECTs ( newly qualified teachers) doctors were junior for a year or two with immediate progression after that than that would make sense but if people have been working in a sector for 10 years and are considered capable enough to perform a caesarean alone, than they’re trained enough to get paid for it!

God knows why I'm posting - maybe boredom - but I don''t think OP is genuine. Why this person can't be bothered to post their salary is a bit dubious, for one thing.

But from what I understand of junior doctors salary in the UK, well, cry me a bloody river. Yet another fucking tone deaf thread (if the person is genuine).

I work in the public sector and have always had to pay. Can’t be claimed back.

@Msmumm your daughter has done extremely well to become a vet. However it's not comparable to the stress of being medically responsible for humans. Many many professional jobs require years of complex studies, it doesn't mean their careers and jobs will carry the stress of others. Architects and engineers study for years, they have the responsibility of ensuring buildings don't collapse, I'm sure they don't compare their work to every day being responsible for people's health.

'Also the posters who believe the role is 100% supervised are completely wrong. You start off FY1 with relatively high levels of supervision, then increasingly independent. Registrars (ST3-ST7/8) are usually unsupervised for out of hours work and very independent. A registrar will usually do surgery solo overnight'

Of course, no one is suggesting supervised means literally a consultant is stood beside them 24hrs a day, rather there is someone else more senior responsible.

So a reg doing ooh surgery will have a consultant to contact should the case be problmatic. They are all under supervision until they become consultants.

Only for the fifth year though.

Can I ask where your ‘passion’ and outrage comes from regarding this issue? You seem very angry and I just wonder where that is coming from? I am being nosey and you can tell me to mind my own business!

But you just seem quite incensed by junior doctors’ complaints and I wonder if there was more to it. I know many are suffering from receiving poor health care for themselves and their families right now which understandably affects their viewpoint.

There are many pretty humble doctors out there who just want to do a good job, accept their privileges and don’t have a ‘god complex’. Maybe you have not met any.

I can't speak for why all Brits hate doctors, if indeed they do. But this Brit dislikes many doctors because they don't listen to the patient, are unable to take an accurate history, the amount of gas lighting that goes on is incredible, they are arrogant, rude and unavailable.

This patient has had so many bad consultations with doctors that I could write book about it I am fed up of arrogant doctors who feel they are better than the patient. I now point out to the worst ones that they are no better and no more intelligent than me, they just decided to study something different university.

I don't agree with the doctors strike the first thing is first do know harm. What are they doing now by striking? Harming thousands of patients, me included.

I used to have admiration for doctors and their dedication but now I am just fed up; even trying to get a GP appointment is impossible, if you go to A&E you've done something 'really naughty' and if you don't go and end up in hospital then you're even more 'naughty' for not accessing the unaccessible help!!

Today I've had to phone a national helpline because my GP has refused access to a GP appointment full stop, for a serious problem, how has it come to this when the person has a life limiting condition and the GP actually refuses to see them during the crisis?

My patience for doctors ran out quite a few years ago and until I'm shown basic respect that I feel I deserve than I don't see why I should respect or support them any longer.

I've also been refused access to my digital records, which all patients are now allowed access to, because my complicated health means it will take too long to go through my records to check them - how is this right? Having access will allow me to advocate for myself more effectively. But no, I've been refused.

Thing is, as a patient with life changing and life limiting conditions, I need them, but cannot access the help I need.

You didn’t get 35% though. Which seems unrealistic even with the best will in the world.

I imagine you worked extremely hard for that, and I am sure most JD are just as dedicated. No one is saying they don’t deserve a healthy increase - just that what they are demanding is just not possible.

So that's over £10K more than my daughter got then?
But they are hard done to....😂