Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

They are actually saying the pay rise doesn't have to be straight away though. They just want their pay to be gradually increased so that it is on a par (in real terms) to what it was when they started medicine.
Would you prefer it if they don't do their jobs for a few days or should they just leave the country or change careers so we don't have doctors for a few years ,(or longer)

There is nothing coming down the line that suggests this will happen anytime soon.
Even the reading of scans, is years away plus the prob with ordering new tech is that by the time its installed/in use, its old and unsupported, AI may change a lot of things but health is possibly going to be one of the least affected sectors.

Primary care? you ve not read on here (and elsewhere) the howls of complaint that people cannot get a F2F appointment?

Full support for you here! This country is a disgrace. We all need to hope a different party will want to turn this utter shambles around.

"For junior doctors, basic pay will be between £32,397 and £63,162, with average total full-time earnings likely to be around £41,300 for those in their first year of practice, and £71,300 for specialty registrars towards the end of their training"

Totally agree with this, well said. People who don’t support wage increases have been brain washed into thinking that the country can’t afford it.

I agree that a realistic goal would achieve better results. And I also think there is definitely a ‘political’ flavour of some in the BMA right now. I would be in favour of a less militant approach and to reach a compromise.

I still think the government does not care about junior doctors or the NHS at all right now. it feels like a lose-lose situation.

Fleetheart, it's pretty much always been like that. I trained 1972(nursing) in the 80s, big General hospital,I was Nurse Bank (now called Temporary workforce) sometimes I worked 3 wards on a shift,no breaks. I went and sat on the toilet,put my head on the walk and closed my eyes for 5 minutes. I retired 8 years ago, another big general hospital. The shifts had increased to 12.5 hours, formerly 9.45 I retired after normal retirement age (DH unexpected liquidation of his employer) I know how hard gd work,and consultants, I knew roughly what I was in for when I started. This summer after 18 months of agony, unable to get GP appointment, misdiagnosis by other health professional, I went private for one issue (I have a tiny NHS pension 12 years) presented myself on the ED, after 6 months of severe abdo pain,to be informed I had a malignancy,and would be reviewed in 12weeks. Guess what, still waiting! Can't afford to go private for this. I don't support striking and refused to do it myself in the past. Most people don't go in the medical fields for the money

I agree with newchapterbeckons. As I understand it, doctors are demanding a 35% pay increase. Noone I've ever known gets this, even if they get a promotion. I'd be much more sympathetic if the demands were reasonably. So the public are doubly sceptical - they know any treatment which is already patchy will get poorer and they compare these demands with their wage increases which if like mine often didnt keep up with inflation.

YANBU - solidarity with the strikers

@Ginmonkeyagain it is because train drivers have strong unions.
If it was just about competing for workers care workers would be better paid.

28k would be a great starting salary for a 35 hrs a week office job with little responsibility or specialist knowledge required, but that's not what doctors do. Medical students, prospective medical students and current junior doctors are looking at the salary, working conditions, hours, stress, etc and saying 'no thanks'. That's not a problem for them because most of them won't struggle to find other work; it's a problem for society.

Anyone who's ever been to A&E can see that there is a supply and demand issue with doctors: we don't have enough of them. In any other situation this would lead to salaries going up, but instead they've gone down in real terms, so more and more newly qualified doctors leave the country or choose other careers, and the situation gets worse.

I don't think doctors take the decision to strike lightly, I support them and would happily pay more tax if that would help solve the problem.

I don't think you have any idea what the strikes are about and you've clearly swallowed the media trope hook, line and sinker.

Patient safety - or lack thereof - is one of the reasons for the strikes.

@PuddlesPityParty, my apology, of course I meant to copy and respond to @Baffledandalarmed post!

The pay is only a small part of the issue as the juniors become very isolated and stressed
Small areas of support will help -

They should look how successful companies retain staff
Pay for exams / sponsored university degree so no debt
Free meals / subsidies for gyms
paid for Christmas celebrations/ free mental health support

However they also need to look at recruitment- on a socioeconomic level they are taking a lot of kids from higher income families- then they qualify and see they have a worse income than all their peers and parents
So they are very dissatisfied - they don’t even represent the population they are serving
I think cheering on picket lines by any health worker is pretty uncaring so I wonder at their motivation to become a doctor with some of them

I support a pay rise but there is an unpleasant militancy about asking for 35%
the first years generally are still in training then the pay should rise - registrars are very well qualified and should be on 90k or so

What on earth are you talking about?

Labour have publicly stated they can not, and will not meet the pay demands of Junior doctors either.

What party exactly do you think will???? Given you do need one to implement the pay increase.

This is NOT about party politics, even if I strongly believe that it is being hijacked as a political vehicle - but that is a separate issue.

And ‘most of the people on NHS waiting lists’ haven’t worked their socks off at school, university, medical school and got themselves into debt to have such a ‘lucrative career’.

Thank goodness for people like OP who dedicated so much hard work and time to be able to become a doctor as they are in short supply.

This country should start paying people properly for relentless hard work.

Arguing between ourselves is exactly what the mega-rich want, so we are too busy to turn on them!

Yes, doctors are well paid compared to some other jobs. But they are also shelling out thousands every year in student loan repayment, professional membership and indemnity costs, exam costs, that other jobs aren't.

On top of which they are working long and unsocial hours during which time they are making life and death decisions in emergency situations, or using the knowledge they have gained to diagnose a specific illness from a set of commonly experienced symptoms. That is definitely not like other jobs.

Since 2010, a combination of pay restraint (govt speak for not allowing decent payscale rises) and inflation mean NHS staff have found themselves considerably worse off. I don't agree with the BMA demanding 35% but I can see where they got the number from.

Well you are not INCREASING public safety by striking for six days in the middle of winter!!!

Is this some kind of sick gaslighting joke?

GS is on a gap year, he's been earning £12 an hour as a teenager and in the run up to Christmas was offered £25 an hour for overtime. It is hard to figure out how we value work.

Being totally selfish here but I don't want an overworked doctor making life or death decisions about mine or my loved ones lives when they are also worrying about how they are going to pay the rent.

I know someone who has been a consultant for 7 years and still not at 100K. That is after so many years of hard work. There are lawyers, investment bankers, politicians etc who earn that with just their degree. What people are not understanding is that in the earlier days after the long long slog of studying, working unsociable hours, paying and clearing endless exams the pay for a Doctor was good. Now it is very very average and not worth the hard slog and the responsibility in the UK. Everyone I know whose kids have mentioned medicine is trying to steer them clear of this option. To give you an idea of difference in salary, I have friends emigrating to Australia. They are in their mid to late 40’s age wise, and are consultants. They get paid £110000 in UK, they have been offered £315000 in Australia. It is a no brainer. It is 3 times the salary for a much more relaxed and easy job. The NHS is full of EXPAT doctors, they have no real ties to the UK, if they choose to leave for better pay, and they have started going, the NHS which is already hugely understaffed will collapse. Also it is not about greed, Doctors pay a lot of money for exams, and MDU, GMC, RCP registrations etc. which they have to continue to work. I don’t think they get paid adequately for the kind of work and responsibility they shoulder. At least not at the same level as they get paid in other countries.

@mantyzer it is both. Doctors also have a strong union, so strong in fact they got an exemption carve out from the NHS for GPs.

Most professions require a degree, perhaps a masters and specialist training on small salaries to start. Law, finance etc.

It is this special god like status that is particularly and uniquely nauseating.

It used to be the case that 30/40k a year could support a SAHP and a family, own your house, go on fairly decent holidays etc. That's when I was a kid. Possibly different in other areas of the country, but for a decent area in the NE that was the case. Now, my DH and I both earn more individually, and while we are not on the breadline we are definitely squeezed. We we couldnt manage on one salary.

I imagine a junior doctor is on what is considered a "decent" salary, but not 6 figures. The 6 figures will come, but with how much everything costs these days, plus their added costs for the role they do (and the hours...) and student loans etc, unless they're earning 70/80k AND have a second salary coming in, people shouldn't be surprised they're struggling to make ends meet.

Like most of us in the squeezed middle, they are worrying.

That just suggests that pay used to be good and is still good for older consultants. It doesn't prove the pay of younger medics is good!

You would be lucky to find ANY doctor caring for you currently.