Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

Nah sorry OP no sympathy from me on the wages front. I'm a healthcare professional and work closely with junior doctors. Most of them haven't got a clue what they're doing as they're new to that specialty. You get paid more than newly qualified AHPs and Healthcare Scientists who are trained in their specific area so can (usually) hit the ground running whereas when you're just thrown into a speciality as a newly qualified doctor you (understandably) don't know as much about that specific area for a while. Surely you can see your pay is substantially higher than the advertised rates when you would've started your training. Absolutely behind you on the recruitment issues, unsafe staffing levels etc and that for sure needs looking at (as it does in most NHS departments) but not your salary aspect. Lots of us are struggling, lots of us have to fork out for professional registration fees, lots of us have student loan repayments (which, let's be fair are essentially a graduate tax these days). The difference between you and another healthcare professional though is your earning potential is far better so you will see your salary increasing substantially.

I see the race to the bottom mentality is out in force. Wages across the board have not risen with inflation and when you
Compare the difference in wage increase with house prices- it is staggering. A shameful indictment of years of government failure via austerity which is a political choice and has destroyed the economy. A doctor who literally deals with life and death should not be struggling to live. That is unacceptable and people need to stop excusing it and enabling the Conservatives to keep robbing us all to fill their own already deep pockets and that of their mates. Professionals who train for years should be properly compensated. As for people who are blaming the doctors for the state of the NHS- shame on you. We all have a common enemy here and people need to wake up.

Exactly. It’s not straight forward. I don’t know a single medic that works over the age of sixty. People in finance are more likely to drop dead before they even reach that age!

Hope the business continues to flourish.

I left the NHS (HCW) came back during Covid and then left again so stressful. My DH (manager) left and went self employed.

I was aghast when my son said he wanted to do medicine and I kept thinking he only has a 30% chance of getting on a degree anyway and the A levels this year were so much harder than Covid years too. I did help him as much as I could though, as a parent I see that as my role to help him achieve his goals. He got accepted for a medical degree and he got his A levels too. I do worry for him but he has youth on his side as he will be 22 (23 in the August) when he finishes. He’s also loving the course and placements and he is really focused on his course and doing well and he loves living in halls and is looking forward to his house share next year too. He is in control of his future hoping NHS is better by July 2028 🤞

JD salary (starting) is higher than the bottom three bands of the civil service. So no, I have little sympathy.

All public sector employees need pay rises. Just because you’re a doctor doesn’t make you any more deserving that anyone else - which appears to be what many here are saying, including the OP.

I don’t think there is anything wrong in saying “we deserve more”. Lots of workers deserve more. The cost of living is a big deal for a lot of people at the moment.

We need to support many public workers in getting paid better and also hold the government accountable for underfunding and mismanaging public services. Something needs to be done about the cost of living too.

the thing I do find frustrating - if it was someone who was a low paid worker but still essential eg. A Cleaner in a hospital they would be told to “live within their means”. When really they aren’t paid enough either.

You are in the same situation as millions of others who are having difficulty making ends meet, and who are not striking and putting lives at risk, delaying much needed and long waited operations. A reasonable ,in my opinion, 8.8% has been offered this time rather than the unreasonable 35%. As a junior doctor you knew what the pay was when you started, and know that as you rise up the ranks you get far more. In my opinion you need to take the 8.8% and start working on next years claim. The government aren’t going to give in, the nhs hasn’t got the money and is up shit creek anyway (and needs a complete overall, something unions won’t allow, to become smoother at processing needing less back office staff and investing in the frontline staff and buildings instead). The strikes are pissing me off now

How much do you get paid per month?

I think the idea of the student loan write off is a good one to keep doctors in the NHS for as long as possible.

I am interested to know more about what doctors would like regarding better support and staffing and what that would actually look like? How far below a safe level do doctors think we are? I obviously know we need more of staff and resources but how much? Anyone got any experience/ examples? As I know part of the strike is over patient safety. My dad is currently receiving end of life care but when we were in the hospital system, I was totally bowled over with the high level of care and attention he recieved from all the staff and access to expertise and treatment was excellent. How they managed to do this is totally beyond me. I fear he was super lucky and this care was provided with the utmost amount of skill under extreme pressure. Yet we didn't get this impression, totally remarkable. I have so much respect, thank-you!

I was a teacher the early years were hard, but things improve will a pay spine you can work up. Not in teaching now, my pay increases are mainly based on performance, or by leaving and getting another job. Yet I don't don't have the pressure and stress!

Don’t feed the troll. This is a blatant political post, cut and paste from BMA propaganda to members to get people onside during the current strike.

What an insidious post! It’s no one’s fault Russia went to war with Ukraine and created a huge COL crisis throughout Europe. The pandemic wasn’t planned you know! We have multiple issues in this country that are increasing pressure.

As a country we are trying to stay afloat - we can NOT afford an eye watering 35% pay rise for all junior doctors!!!!!!! And as extension most of the NHS as others will rightly demand the same terms.

It is staggering you can’t seem to comprehend the most basic fact: it is totally UNAFFORDABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The bottom line is that if we want doctors (and other HCPs) to stay and work in the UK after qualifying, we have to pay enough to make it worth their while.
And at the moment, we aren't.

It's especially a problem in London and the SE, where housing costs are high (possibly more so in the SE outside London, as London weighting isn't paid but, in a lot of areas, rents are as high as in cheaper parts of outer London).

And for pp's who've suggested that doctors can't possibly be entitled to UC, because they earn less than a doctor and aren't entitled to it, entitlement for 2 households of the same size will be vary with rent. I did a benefit check for someone thinking of taking a job on £42k, 3 children (2 under 5), and non-working partner. They were entitled to well over £1k a month in UC because the allowance for rent is £1,200 in this part of Sussex, and that's still far short of the average rent for a 3-bed property which is now over £2k a month.

Agreed.

I am a consultant of 25 years, full time NHS and do not have the life I thought I would when I trained as a doctor! My consultants then were loaded and buying sports cars for their kids etc!

Having said that, I think I earn enough as a consultant and didn’t go on strike.

I would urge the OP to change career. As much as we need good doctors in the NHS right now. It won’t get any better. You are still young enough to change.

It is not just the money. Like teachers and other professions, the juniors can only strike about pay and not other important stuff. Like not knowing your rotas till you start your job, being refused leave for your wedding and honeymoon, however early you beg to try and sort out the leave, the way you are treated by management, being sent to work somewhere far from home without being given accommodation, the nitpicking about documentation, the ridiculous IT systems, the pointless mandatory training modules etc etc.

But most of all the sheer burden of responsibility when you have literally other people’s lives in your hands with a huge backlog of patients to see, with little support and your bleep/phone going off constantly with understandably irate patients, relatives and even colleagues wanting to know why you can’t come to the ward to do reviews/drug charts/cannulas asap.

It is less and less rewarding being a junior doctor and I support them. Despite being a consultant who has been up all night covering the striking juniors and I still have a day’s work booked today (consultant conditions could do with looking at: no limits on our working hours and it can be unsafe).

My great achievement is that my kids have not chosen medicine. Thank goodness.

Agree.

35% is insane.

Afraid I can't support as i am watching my mum slowly dying thanks to her investigations and ops being cancelled.

Before anyone says it's the government, I'm blaming them too.

Who cares? The strike is a current news item and worthy of discussion. Not sure why people get so upset. Even if the OP is lying, the state of the NHS and the issue of junior doctors pay and conditions is a reasonable debate topic!

Troll-hunting is against guidelines btw.

I support the strikes. Below 30K for years of studying and expertise and huge responsibility is not enough. Yes, salary will increase but that is not the point. Stick to your guns, ignore the people who have no idea what it is like.
These are the same people who expect first class care when they end up in hospital. I want the medical staff treating me to be well paid, not run ragged and having the time to listen to patients and treat them properly. We won’t get this unless we support front line staff.

I don’t believe this is a real post. And I haven’t RTFT either, but I did want to agree on the pension point.

it’s all well and good quoting £14/h, but medics gets absolutely incredible pension benefits that need to be considered too. The pension element is worth at least 50% on top of the base salary, if not more. There always seems to be a huge lack of understanding regarding the value of defined benefit pension schemes and how valuable they are. This is applicable across the public sector.

Maybe the government should consider increasing the base salary but ending defined benefit schemes - that could be applied to the whole public sector and everybody would be happy.

Assuming you are genuine. Where on earth do we find the billions demanded for a 35% pay rise?

And what will happen next? All NHS workers will demand the same - as a matter of fairness and equality- and we have to ‘find’ tens of billions more???

Surely you can see that this is insane position to put the country in.

Am so sorry, I am in the same position with my Dad. Its the worst thing I have ever been through. He is not accessing hospital care anymore, but the strikes were distressing when he was. An admin error cancelled one appointment during strikes when it was actually going ahead.

Sending a hug xx

YANBU. I expect that the vast majority of those who say ‘suck it up’ will scream blue murder if we suggest changing the state pension from annual inflation-busting increases (the triple lock) to keeping up with inflation.

Yet those same people who demand inflation-busting pension increases expect doctors and teachers to have below inflation increases every year.

Total hypocrisy

First class care????? Are you serious?

Op yanbu

The one thing I would go on strike for is if I could protest about the cuts in services for patients. We are offering a poorer service than 20 years ago. I have seen it with my own eyes. We are not giving patients the treatment and support they need. I feel embarrassed. In primary or secondary care. It is not good enough.

I do my best as a clinician, I haven’t taken a day off sick for 25 years and am kind and empathic and don’t let people down, but I can’t work miracles and feel for the patients I see.