Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

The data says mortality drops during strikes as patients are seen immediately by the most senior staff, and people who should never be in a&e in the first place clogging the system don't come. But let's not let evidence get in the way of an argument

@Thatladdo see my post 6 posts above yours.

Would you say I am prosperous and wealthy? I can only afford to work as a consultant, after 18 years of hard slog for the nhs, because my husband supports us. Had my marriage fallen apart (which it could have done, missing so many significant family moments over almost 2 decades), so would my career.

In my area (not London but south East), 22 year old nannies tell me they cannot accept less than £25-30 per hour for their living costs. How is it that junior doctors are worth so much less aged well into their 30s and even 40s? I should say I do not begrudge nannies their wage. This is what they need to earn. But they can increase their wage requirements with inflation. That is all doctors are asking for. Pay restoration.

please stop perpetuating the myth that fortune beckons ‘soon.’

And JDs didn’t ‘choose’ to strike now, at the busiest time of the year; these pay disputes have been ongoing for many months. Scottish doctors have been listened to and reached a deal a long time ago. The BMA has only a certain window of time to call strike action before having to re ballot. Not striking during winter months loses a huge chunk of time in an already long dispute.

The government has no interest in preserving the NHS, and it’s not fit for purpose as it stands.

When it is a privatised system, doctors will be better off, but patients won’t. That is where we are headed.

I'm sure you will earn more soon, you don't sound like you have been in the job for long

The extortionate demands of the junior doctors are the problem. We can’t afford the extra billions it would require.

@BobnLen define ‘soon’ and perhaps read my post a few above yours.

I'm a nurse, I'm sorry you are struggling. But doctors asking for a 35% pay rise is absolutely ridiculous.

Quite.

They have made it utterly impossible to broker a deal. The JD are coming across as deluded militants and not exactly someone you can trust.

I don't know enough about it, but I thought this was fairly standard for junior doctors, I thought it's more about the long game? Or more medium game. Don't all of us have to work our way up?

The truth is that you can be as condescending and patronising as you like. However the NHS is haemorrhaging staff at an alarming rate and it is making the system extremely unsafe. Even in the last 10 years the system has become less efficient and people are waiting hours to be treated with life threatening conditions. None of us are immune to this and you will find a very scary situation if you ever try to access emergency care. A bit of tax relief here and there is not keeping our highly trained staff in the UK and we're all suffering or will suffer for it.

How did you not look up NHS pay scales before you decided to pursue medicine? Why didn’t you choose specialisations that made you a consultant grade faster (GP)? Why didn’t you do the math before choosing to have a child?

It is definitely a hard path, but It was your choice all along. If you see it correctly.

"Deluded" and heading off abroad for a decent work life balance. Don't make the mistake of being remiss of the junior doctors plight, especially if you and your loved ones need the NHS for any reason. I worry greatly if my loved ones need care as the system is creaking and unsafe due to the dearth of staff. It makes more sense to listen to the struggles of people who work day in and day out in the NHS, than forming an opinion that is based on nothing at all.

With so little proper detail in the OP it is a bit difficult to define anything but OP is obviously not about 50 as they mention young children. There is a difference be not earning what you expect to get for a good life and pleading poverty like the OP has done.

Junior doctors simply do not grasp their immense privilege.

Previous generations were must more aware.

If your sole focus is generating wealth perhaps it would have been better to study economics and go into finance? Or tech?

Medicine has never offered a rockstar salary unless you are a highly regarded consultant. So why choose a career that has a steady upward trajectory with a job for life globally, a great pension, flexibility and potential to earn serious money as you advance….medicine is a solid choice, but unlikely to guarantee the coveted lifestyle clearly demanded by the junior doctors of today.

WE.CANT. AFFORD. IT.

Their 35% ransom demand is ridiculous.

When it is a privatised system, doctors will be better off, but patients won’t. That is where we are headed.
This, and there'll also be a lot of money creamed off in profits to wealthy donor interests and private interests of politicians. Then what private companies won't touch, the state will step in to fund but probably by paying high amounts of money to private companies with the right connections to do state work.

The government are doing a number on the general public by trying to turn average people against unionised workforces.

@Justfinking it is standard.

But in my specialty, the average age to become a consultant is 40. That is because of needing to do 2/3 years of research, extra training, extra specialty exams, and add a couple of years to have children as it’s a female-heavy specialty.

Even as consultants, many of us are dependent on spouses’ incomes. As I said above, I took a pay cut when I became a consultant.

How long is it ok for people to struggle for? Should we be happy that our medical staff who had to fight off 15-20 applicants at each stage of their career progression, who we expect to be at the top of their game and make difficult clinical decisions are worrying about paying their basic bills over 20 years after starting their medical training and over 15 years after they have been working in the NHS.

Also agree the moniker of Junior Doctor is unhelpful. If you had been in a role for 15 years, were highly trained and the most senior doctor in the hospital overnight or at weekends, would you be happy to be called ‘junior’ as if you have been qualified 2 mins? Would you be happy to be called ‘junior’ in ANY role?

“Valuable, high status and rewarding?” 🤔Is it? Perhaps at one time. I certainly wouldn’t want to be a G.P. or a nurse, there’s no financial incentive at all. I don’t think people respect the profession anymore.
Consultant in a specialist field perhaps ££££££

In Wales they have increased the numbers of trainees but it is still about half the number predicted we would need about 10 yrs ago. If they do not increase the funding to general practice then there will be no jobs for those trained. It’s the Government you need to blame. We are lucky to have the NHS at all, I don’t think we will soon. It’ll all be private healthcare and insurance, or with only those on benefits getting it for free.

People don’t want to become a G.P anymore, or a vet. I didn’t do a 5/7 year degree and I earn more. I paid off my student debt straight away. My degree was easy and I worked throughout, so didn’t have much debt to begin with. I didn’t have to work long hours, do a residency etc - my idea of hell.

Surely anyone that studies to be a doctor also studies what they might get paid and the things that will have to come out of that pay like registrations, insurances, etc.

I personally am grateful to anyone who takes this path and works in the NHS. It is becoming more and more difficult to make a decent living out of it and the working conditions are leading to big losses of staff. Not everyone can or should be a GP. A large range of staff is needed to treat the population. A great deal more compassion is needed towards doctors. The arrogant "you chose it, deal with it" is just not cutting it and is making for an unsafe system as staff are burning out and leaving. We should all be worried about this especially if we require the NHS for any reason.

You have my complete support.
Some people on here are compassionless morons.

Imagine what we'd do if no one decided to become doctors because they looked into the salary (as suggested on here) and decided they didn't want to.

Is it any coincidence that doctors salaries have gone down as its become a more female profession? Wht don't we value caring professsions more? Why are we happy for bankers bonuses to be uncapped but not want to pay for the people who actually make a difference to society?

Please explain why you are so poorly paid that you get benefits - do you work part-time, do you have a high rent, do you have more than 2 children, are you a single parent.

No GP is ever so poorly paid that you need top-ups unless you have exceptional circumstances!

Dear @Newchapterbeckons.
I am a consultant of 3 years standing.
I work in an acute subspecialty. there is therefore no private work.

There are 3 places in the country I can do my job, all big cities.

Please can you point me towards the potential to earn serious money? Would love to hear it as currently my earnings contribute almost nothing to household income after childcare.

I will save my compassion for those that are dying as a result of this strike.

“Please explain why you are so poorly paid that you get benefits - do you work part-time, do you have a high rent, do you have more than 2 children, are you a single parent.
No GP is ever so poorly paid that you need top-ups unless you have exceptional circumstances!”

🤦🏼‍♀️

I used the word highly regarded not niche.