By calling a surgeon sir, or should I call him doctor?

[teaandcake32]

I am aware there is etiquette around addressing Dr's and surgeons.

Should you call a surgeon Mr ..........., what if you don't know his surname.

Would Sir be an insult? Would Dr be an insult?

Please help me find the correct terminology, wise women of Mumsnet.

I'm old and experienced enough not to feel slighted by it.
Also old enough, and indeed retired enough, to not give a shit what people think of or call me personally, but I've always thought it important for patients to know who they are dealing with, well before "Hello my name is..." and I will also always challenge sexism when I meet it.
Assuming what someone's role is on the basis of their sex is not ok, and nor is referring to "Dr Jones and Charge Nurse Smith", but "Mary and Jane" as was common in our Trust both verbally and in writing and I was pointing that out until my last working day. Call everyone by their titles, or nobody, but all too often it's just the women who are told not to make a fuss.

I, too, introduce myself as Dr Xxx, Consultant [specialty], as I often have a registrar or male nursing assistant with me and introducing myself just by my name and job description doesn’t seem to be clear enough.

Why not?

Even that doesn’t always work! I had one patient grumbling to me in clinic that “he thought he was going to see the Big Man”. I asked who that might be. He said “Dr Saschka”.

I pointed out that was me, and that I had introduced myself, was wearing a big name badge, had a big sign on my door, etc. He said “oh, I thought you must be his secretary or something”. Because secretaries are well-known for examining patients and writing prescriptions.

How do you explain somebody is a doctor without using the word “doctor”? And why would you, just to avoid “an honorific”?

Consultants should be addressed "Mr"
Doctors by "Dr"

Again, no. Physician consultants are still doctor. Surgical consultants (and most surgical registrars) are Mr/Ms.

The number of posters who have come on here and waded in with their opinion without RTFT is shocking, but also sadly affirmative of the general style of some posters on MN these days:
I believe it is so and so, and therefore must be true..... Errr... No.

How many times on this thread do we have to point out this is wrong?

RTFT

Also, I wouldn't appreciate being called Mr.

And just to point out, I need surgery which will be rather complex - in fact, I have been told by a consultant Dr X, that I will need two surgeons. I am more than happy that I have now been passed on to another consultant, Mr Y. I have far more confidence that they have the surgical experience needed to make my surgery successful, because they have bothered to take the exams that prove they have a certain level of capability.

@vipersnest1 Was just about to say this exact thing! It’s absolutely ridiculous

Also common sense surely…? I’ve been genuinely shocked by this thread and the lack of basic knowledge

@MaloneMeadow, exactly so. Just because I decide to call an apple a pear doesn't make it one.

Am struggling to understand your meaning here.

Surgeons don't bother or not bother to take exams. They aren't optional, they can't progress through their training without them. There are equivalent exams for every specialty, just none of those create a drama about titles.

So if one of your consultants is Dr X, they aren't a surgeon.

It's not they couldn't be arsed to do some exams.

My highlight was being asked if I needed gcses to be an anaesthetist!

Surely a diploma in Sudoku is a widely-accepted alternative? 🤣

(Gets coat)

😂

Whilst I appreciate that it's a sign of respect for the level they have reached professionally. I don't think we're expected to really know how to address them.
To speak respectfully and to call them Dr is probably expected enough, and I'm not sure they mind past that.

When I last had surgery, I would cheerfully say good Morning Dr xxxx, thank you for checking in on me! He seemed happy that I was quite chirpy and polite to him.
I never called him by his first name, but the operation he performed lead to the birth of my son, who has his name as his middle name. Don't think you can respect or appreciate someone much more than that for their professional achievement. =)

To clarify -
not all “Drs” are consultants
not all surgeons are consultants
not all consultants use the title “Dr”
most surgeons use the title “Ms/Miss/Mr”
not all surgeons using “Ms/Miss/Mr” are consultants
“Ms/Miss/Mr” does not necessarily mean they are senior to a “Dr”.

Importantly, there will be those working in a hospital setting using the title Dr but may not be medically trained.
They will be working within their remit but many patients will not realise who has treated them - they may not care, which is fine - but it really ought to transparent.
This is the main reason why I introduce myself tittle-name-job, not “one of the medical team” etc.

No doctor in their right mind would care if a patient got the nuances of their job title wrong.
Lovely story, btw!

@AnnaMagnani 'Surgeons don't bother or not bother to take exams. They aren't optional, they can't progress through their training without them. There are equivalent exams for every specialty, just none of those create a drama about titles.'
How do they qualify without performing surgery, then?
I'm not wanting^ to get into a nit-picking match with you, but clearly some doctors are appointed as consultants without being a member of RCoS and that was the thrust of my poin^t - some doctors, who are consultants, don't have that particular qualification, as they are not qualified yet, but clearly still operate on patients.
As I said, I would prefer someone who has more experience to operate on me.

Apologies for the weird italics in there.

You can’t become a consultant without passing the relevant Royal College exams.
Consultant is a very specific term in medicine.
Non-consultant grades can, however, operate.

Why not just introduce yourself as first name, last name, job title (as some on this thread have indicated that they do). No need for titles unless you believe those you are introducing yourselves to are really thick...