To want to go to medical school at 37?

[MilanHilton]

I’m 37, married with two nursery aged children. Husband and I both earn £45k each so we live comfortably but not well off.

My medical care when I was pregnant was atrocious and the NHS was negligent (they admitted it). Which really got me thinking… I want to be a doctor that LISTENS to women so that what happened to me won’t happen to another lady.

I know I’m old, and coming from a non science background I’ll have to do 6 years in medical school and then extra training to be an OBGYN. Looking at the junior doctor pay bands it is going to take me years to get back to my current salary. Not to mention needing to do shift work and the stress of it all.

Financially it will be a tight decade and by the time I finish uni, the kids will be towards the end of primary so hopefully life will be easier. I’ll be mid 40s when I finish medical school so will still have another 20 years of working still.

AIBU for considering putting my young family through a decade of financial and emotional stress with the hope that I’ll earn more in the future? Is it worth the stress?

AINBU - go be a doctor! You’ll save lives (sometimes)
AIBU - that’s too much work and financial turmoil, even if you become a doctor you’re not going to address the chronic lack of resource in NHS

You seem to not appreciate that the NHS you saw is going to be the NHS you work in. I suspect all the staff you saw would like to give the care you want to but are either under so much pressure they cannot or have been so worn down they struggle to do so.

By all means retrain but don't expect to fix the NHS by doing so. You'd probably be better place running as an MP if you want to do that!

I am happy to stand corrected - my brother went in ages ago. But the OP says she doesn't have a science background, so she would have to study to get herself into a position of being able to get on to a graduate scheme....whatever her route in, earning £45k is a LONG way and a lot of pain ahead (is really what I was getting at!).

I'm glad your family member has no regrets - mine doesn't have too many either, but is under NO illusion that had he stayed as an accountant at a Big Four firm, he would have had a far easier life, be much much better off as he approaches his 50s, be far less stressed and less cynical - and he advised all four of our children to run for the hills rather than study medicine and practice in the (current) NHS. Which is incredibly sad.

Research and brainstorm other ways you could support healthcare for women around pregnancy:

volunteer with NCT or a charity which supports women in difficult circumstances (pregnancy in prison, teenage pregnancy, pregnancy in the context of substance misuse or similar).

Depending on your transferable skills you could try to get on the board of an NHS trust near you as a patient representative or using some other expertise (HR, finance or similar).

Campaign with a political group for better funding, or a change in government.

Think carefully about where you could have the most impact. It’s not only OBGYN/medical doctor. The limiting factor in good care is not the intentions of individuals but the systemic failures around funding, governance and the deprioritisation of women’s healthcare concerns.

Specialty training is extremely tough as are exit exams (they don’t end at med school!!) you would easily be 50 before you qualify, assuming you sail through every stage.

Unless you are extremely dedicated and bright and willing to move around the country and work all hours for the next 13+ years you won’t stand a chance.

Thank you all for your responses. I have friends who are nurses who have been in their hospital for years so now reaping the benefit of a settled home life. I have no doctor friends so your perspectives have been very useful.

My husband is in the military (getting out in two years) so we have done the whole moving and shift work thing. But the roles will be reversed.

My local uni offers a foundation year for those with no medical background so not impossible. I have savings to just about pay for the tuition but DH will have to cover living expenses.

A few of you have pointed out that my intention to become a doctor is probably a misplaced one. No I don’t see myself as a sole saviour of the NHS but I just thought with my own experience, I can bring in a lot more empathy than some others. I know that I can’t fix an under resourced NHS but I hadn’t thought about the fact that working in a broken system after years of training and sacrifices might just break me.

I think I will stick with my current career and consider whether there are volunteering opportunities where I can advocate for patients.

Perhaps be aware that you are heavily implying that those who don't successfully complete med or vet school are oversensitive and not strong. Could not be further from the truth.

It will take more than a decade
One doctor will not change the NHS - why do you think they are on strike? It isn't just pay, it's working conditions, shifts, amount of study, etc
Working time directive barely applies to medical staff
The NHS is about to collapse because people, including the public, do not value it, nor the staff no matter how many times they clap.
IME I would consider a job in politics - more ability to change things

I work in theatres and have met some fantastic junior obs/gynae drs. They have either left the speciality, moved to another country (usually oz) or gone to work in a major city. The fear of litigation is very real and they feel they need to be in a well supported environment. Not one has stayed past the end of their training in the 7 years I've been in my DGH hospital.
Instead we have locums or overseas recruitment.

Have you any other interest in being a doctor or studying medicine other than an your own experience? Not to diminish that, it's just a heck of a slog and there could be other ways of addressing this interest. What do you do now, for instance? Maybe you could look at midwifery? Very hard work but wider access and quicker training. Something to do with quality or advocacy maybe?

I started at 34 (no kids) and am just coming up to my final year of grad entry (3rd year passed). Work broadly fine except a couple of serious health issues. I do feel as though I'm only just starting though yet have been through a bit of a war of attrition compared to the 21 year olds. This could be the health stuff though to be fair as in the normal run of things I'd be going full steam at 37.

You'd need to consider the length of the application process though plus you're not guaranteed to get in your local uni and it would be a lot of work just to decide not to relocate the kids. Also I'm not sure how much assistance if any you'd be given with logistics and placements if you have a specific pathway in mind.

I wouldn't personally consider Medicine without getting on the GEM due to funding but I don't know your circumstances. It's competitive but doable if you make a strong case for yourself. Bear in mind the entry exams. GAMSAT or UKCAT. I think GAMSAT has more coverage if you don't have science degree and is not an easy exam. That's if you have a degree. Perhaps you can just get funding as a first time undergrad.

Perhaps decide what universities are realistic for you and speak to medical admissions then go from there.

I suppose m saying there may be ways but it would be a hell of a lot and you'd feel quite different from the other students.

Even if you started next year- and realistically that's fairly unlikely - you'd be looking at becoming a consultant at about the age that most who are able to do so are starting to think about retiring. It's not impossible but would be extremely difficult and not something I would encourage anyone in your position to attempt to be honest. Medical school is the easy bit of medical training. Working and doing professional exams whilst juggling family commitments is a whole different ball game and is draining in your 20s/early 30s. You'd be into your mid 40s by the time you got there, assuming you worked full time and everything went according to plan. And to be honest, it's not that great when you finish training - I'd say the last decade of my career was the most stressful by miles.
And the problems of the NHS aren't due to a lack of staff who want to be able to "really listen" I'm afraid. * *

*No I don’t see myself as a sole saviour of the NHS but I just thought with my own experience, I can bring in a lot more empathy than some others

@MilanHilton I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but do you not realise how immensely patronising that is to all of us who work in the NHS, who all have our own experiences of being patients? Empathy takes time. If you are in the position that I once was, with 45 minutes to discharge 12 patients from the post-natal ward, including finding all the notes and writing in them, how empathetic do you think you would be?

I certainly was. It was the ones who could skateboard around on a dead horse’s liver that made it. Nobody else did. I got my first sitting about pointing out the anatomy because I’d revised in advance. Doctors have to dissect dead people.

I expect the training as a medical student is different from how it was for my contemporaries, but then (80s) there were two pre-clinical years which had lectures from 9-5, but at least you got normal university holidays.
Then there were three clinical years, where you spent time on the wards learning general medicine and surgery as well as specialties; you were still having lectures. You were also expected to shadow the SHO/registrar of the team you were with during overnight on calls and still do your normal studying the next day. You were also sent away to various placements (friends from London spent time in, for example, Stoke, Bedfordshire, Tewkesbury...) which were residential, so even if it had been practical to return each night, you couldn't.
And you went down to 4 weeks holiday a year which you had to apply for. However, teaching still went on at those times (there were not set times when everything shut down) so you had to catch up when you got back.

I'm sure things have changed, but I imagine it's still pretty grueling.
And I know people are saying they know people who've trained at a later age and who have no science background, but universities/teaching hospitals taking those students will be in the minority.
There's no guarantee that there would be such a placement at a university near your family home. So you could end up travelling hours a day or living away from home Mon-Fri.

Don’t do it. Your children are only young once - you will miss the best part of their childhood in a cloud of hard work and stress for little reward. Do you even have the grades and experience to get in to a medical degree? Your age is likely to count against you too.

My local uni offers a foundation year for those with no medical background so not impossible.

X-posred.
Fair enough - that's one thing off my list.
But - as a PP said - there's no guarantee you get your first choice.

The moving with the military is very different to rotational training as a junior doctor. With the military you know in advance when you will be moving, with rotational training you'll know what deanery you are in but some are massive with hours between hospitals, you may not get told what hospital you are at until 6 weeks before. That maybe 2 hours drive away, tough, they won't care that you have children. Someone I know just about lived in his car for 6 months as the hospital he was at was so far away and traffic was awful (NW).

I know a lot of Surgical trainees and consultants and most trainees have taken time out to do a PhD, competition for specialist training is such that just having a medical degree isn't enough to get into the ST years.

I tried for the extended medical degree many years ago and at interview they made a big thing about how old I was... I'm glad now that I didn't get in.

@rochethenut I’ve clearly offended you in some way as your responses are terribly rude

I didn’t realise you have to do years of research in something before posting on mumsnet. I thought I could benefit from getting some real life experience from people who has gone down this path. I just wanted to float an idea on something I know I don’t know much about before, especially how it impacts on people with a young family. So yes, I have now read the responses and confirmed my thoughts that it is a very tough career with long and stressful training with not brilliant pay at the start.

I wouldn’t do it personally.

My DH did his PhD when our youngest DC were babies and it was the toughest 3 years of our marriage. He was working FT alongside it so slotted the hours into all evenings and weekends, even worked on it when we went on holiday. I did my PhD before they were born so I understood why he wanted to do one too and felt he had the right to do it but honestly, having such small children and him never really being present put so much pressure on our marriage. I even instigated a trial separation at one point because I couldn’t cope with him, he was unbearable to be around.

That was a 3 year PhD, you’re talking about a 6+ years medical degree which is much more taxing. Your kids will suffer, as will your marriage because you’ll barely be around. If you didn’t have young children I’d say go for it but they need you around and the hours med students and indeed junior doctors put in are not family friendly at all.

I completely agree with this and feel that your comment is a bit ill informed.
I was a midwife for 18 years - ran a delivery suite for many of them.
On a 13 hr night (with no sleep the previous day as I was looking after my young children) I was in charge of the whole unit but ended up delivering three babies within two hours of each other as there were no other midwives available. The rose tinted view of this privileged job was constantly challenged by demands out of my control. I did my absolute best to be compassionate but when you are running between 3 women at 5am ......

Its a very noble profession, but I wouldn't do it with kids unless I were already rich and money wasn't an issue. If I won't the lottery then for sure, but I do think medical professions are very glamorised by the media when in reality the training and then the lifestyle is extremely tough and the working environment is lacking in resources and support.

I think I will stick with my current career and consider whether there are volunteering opportunities where I can advocate for patients.

Please inform yourself about the realities of working for the NHS before doing that. Follow some JDs on Twitter. Have a look at PA issues.

Start with this?

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/28/two-in-three-uk-doctors-suffer-moral-distress-due-to-overstretched-nhs-study-finds

With respect, did you really not know this already?