To want to go to medical school at 37?

[MilanHilton]

I’m 37, married with two nursery aged children. Husband and I both earn £45k each so we live comfortably but not well off.

My medical care when I was pregnant was atrocious and the NHS was negligent (they admitted it). Which really got me thinking… I want to be a doctor that LISTENS to women so that what happened to me won’t happen to another lady.

I know I’m old, and coming from a non science background I’ll have to do 6 years in medical school and then extra training to be an OBGYN. Looking at the junior doctor pay bands it is going to take me years to get back to my current salary. Not to mention needing to do shift work and the stress of it all.

Financially it will be a tight decade and by the time I finish uni, the kids will be towards the end of primary so hopefully life will be easier. I’ll be mid 40s when I finish medical school so will still have another 20 years of working still.

AIBU for considering putting my young family through a decade of financial and emotional stress with the hope that I’ll earn more in the future? Is it worth the stress?

AINBU - go be a doctor! You’ll save lives (sometimes)
AIBU - that’s too much work and financial turmoil, even if you become a doctor you’re not going to address the chronic lack of resource in NHS

As a previous poster said up thread I personally have had an awful time being perimenopausal suffering from a huge amount of anxiety, brain fog, lack of self worth etc etc and this has made work life much harder - I’m turning 50 this year and really feel that I need to slow down. I would really struggle with additional study, stress, responsibilities at this point in my life

Toe Sucker

This is horrendous! I have heard of other inquitous behaviour in the NHS but I did not realise it was set up to bully Doctors into doing anything they wanted of them 'or else'. It reminds me of the old USSR! I wish we could do something. Making it public knowledge would be a good start.

Thanks for making this clear. I think it matters a lot that we all kow.

You keep on giving!

The GMC is a public execution ring. In recent years we've seen clinicians arrested for doing absolutely nothing out of the ordinary.
Yes I have personal experience of this @ToeSucker
I won't go into detail as it would make me too recognisable. It is so ridiculous that you wouldn't believe me even if I told you the story anyway. I was eventually entirely exonerated and it was acknowledged that the allegation was completely baseless but nobody even apologised when it was over. It was more "Oh, you didn't do anything wrong after all...business as usual then...off you go, there's lots of work to be done you know." Nobody gave a toss that someone had fabricated lies about me and put me and my family through hell for over a year.
It's one of the many things that led me to say "fuck this" and retire at my earliest opportunity. I loved caring for patients and if I could have carried on doing that but with actual adequate resources I would have worked for at least another decade but I had had enough of being treated like shit.

...And you never give up!

😂

MilanHilton
'Clearly I’m just a lazy patronising person. You guys are right, I’m too thinned skin for this'

It was said tongue in cheek wasn't it? Because I think just posting your question here and surviving shows you are stable enough to survive the tough issues you might face in the years of attaining a Medical qualification. I would still support your your ambition if you've given it as much research as you can. I don't live your life and I don't know your family. I do know that regretting not doing something is a horrible feeling unless you decide not to do it for the best of reasons that only you can know.

So I wish you the best of luck. I like the suggestions about getting frontline experience if you can. That would help you decide I am sure.

As far as the horrific way the Junior Doctors are forced to move around the country, I would hope this bullying situation might soon be improved. But you must assume it might still be in place in order to make your decision safely.

I send my best wishes to all the Doctors and Health Care Workers and everyone thinking of going back to Uni or changing career..

And she won't be a consultant by 50.

Perimenopause hit me from 42, just as I was getting senior in my (long standing) profession. The struggle is real, my energy levels are through the floor, and I’d hate to be doing any more hours than I currently am.

I’m not in any healthcare profession, but many years ago I had cause to work with lots of senior obstetricians/gynaecologists. All in their 40s and above. They were all looking to move into policy or clinical director roles because they couldn’t stand the night shifts any more. As they explained it, women have a pesky habit of going into labour and having emergencies out of hours, so no matter how senior you get you still face the night shifts. One said that if she had her time again she’d do dermatology, as nobody has a dermatological emergency at 3am.

And this was under the last Labour government, when the NHS was ranked one of the best healthcare systems in the world, before the Tories set about destroying it.

Toe Sucker
I didn't say before as I wasn't sure it was entirely on topic but I agree about your remark that PAs will not go away, but be the lead-in for the AI version of diagnosis/treatment decisions.
I think reducing the number of Doctors required is very much on the cards with the use of AI coming in to replace many things they do.
I am strongly against PAs/ As it is, they are merely a political move, and there will be terrible disasters I think. But AI is certainly coming in every area of our lives, and in Diagnostics it leaves my blood running cold.

Definitely not!

Enjoy your children while they're young and you have money

AgeingDoc

I am speechless. They put you through sheer hell on utterly false accusations for a year and then do not even say sorry! Can you sue them? What kind of Union does a Doctor have to support them and give them redress for this kind of of merciless cruelty? It is horrific. You should be given compensation.

Also ToeSucker
'What degree is he doing now @Scirocco ?'
Toesucker. you said:
'My guess is dentistry to do maxillofacial surgery or oral medicine.'
I just wondered what made you think of that. I know cases of the other way round, i.e. Dentistry followed by some kind of Medical course and then 9 to 5 in Oral Medicine. Is it a strange area of Medicine to go into? Another 9 -5 one is Auditory Physician. Sometimes in ENT. Do other Medics think it's a 'cushy number' kind of area to go into?

Oh @Itsdifferentnow ….You’re hilarious! 😆

“You have no desire to help this OP”

Did you miss my post on page 1 or 2 which was directed towards the OP then?

“We who are not in their profession should be doing all we can to support them in getting these terrible working conditions changed. To your shame you have shown no concern about this whatsoever.”

I’m curious as to why you’ve assumed I’m part of your ‘we who are not in their profession’ gang? …. Did you ask what I do for a living? Did I say? No.

Read my first post then tell me that I’m “not in their profession” and “have shown no concern” about terrible working conditions. Think you’ll find the exact opposite on both counts. 😉 🩺

MuckyPlucky · Today at 18:55 you wrote that you posted on page one or two, viz;

'Did you miss my post on page 1 or 2 which was directed towards the OP then?'

As you write to me under the heading MuckyPlucky I returned to pages 1 and 2 which I had read twice before.
Here are the people's names who posted on page 1 not including the OP:

Pottedpalm CanaryCanary Confrontayshunme TheGoogleMum Morechocmorechoc Outthedoor24 Easypeasycheesy · Singleandproud CanaryCanary EarringsandLipstick Panicmode1 Tacotortoise Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g TooBored1 Rosario99 Destiny123 jamsandwich1 Outthedoor24 Pottedpalm EmilyTjP LaMarschallin olympicsrock Unabletomitigate

and without repeating those who posted more than once here are the names of those who posted on page 2:

rochethenut BlouseyBrownMalone rochethenut SylvieLaufeydottir Destiny123 Panicmode1 Cloudysky81 anothernamechangeagainsndagain Ohtobetwentytwo LeanIntoChaos notmorezoom burnoutbabe rochethenut Thehardestthingaboutwritinganoveliswritingit 2024BigWhoop CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau Rosario99

I read those on page 3 also just in case something had moved and could not find 'MuckyPlucky' among any of those.

In fact, I did not find MuckyPlucky until page 11 where you are absolutely hostile to our OP:
MuckyPlucky · 03/01/2024 23:34
............................................................................................................
'Meadowlands · 03/01/2024 22:34 (said)

Good for you wanting to help, the NHS needs people like you.
.................................................................................................................
(and you wrote)
That’s right. Because there’s currently v few of us in the NHS who are caring & “want to listen and make a difference”.

The shameful underfunding by the Tories, the horrendous conditions, woeful backlogs & huge waiting lists aren’t the problem at all. All that’s needed is some entirely unqualified, optimistic, personally-traumatised patients to step-in, to show us where we’ve been going wrong. 🙄'
................................................................................

The acid in that response is possibly the worst I've heard. I think you should leave your job immediately before you do someone some harm. To speak to a person this way is inexcusable, from anybody. But you are in the profession where this lady had the bad experience of which she has told us. Furthermore, it has given her the courageous inspiration to take up a medical profession, knowing how important it is to take notice of Patients. For the people concerned heard her. They answered her. But they over-rode what she said. Had they listened without prejudice maybe they might have decided to follow the path she knew she needed. But even now you demonstrate that superior attitude of despising Patients and assuming they know nothing. You choose to sneer at her bad experience in the past and how it has made her want to turn it around to do do good.

Whatever the dreadful conditions you experience, I fear you would always be one of those stuck up Doctors who sees Patients as rather annoying objects to sort out and use for career purposes. I have worked with so many Doctors. The most wonderful were always the most humble and gentle who treated everybody, but especially Patients, with dignity and respect. One of my favourites always shook hands with his Patient and invited him or her to sit down as if they had called in to visit. He was actually a highly distinguished and important man, a 'Sir'. His Patients included people who had ended up as street sleepers through alcohol and/or drug dependency, yet he treated them like royalty and called them 'Sir' etc. It was his attitude and the similar dignity that the Neurologists gave to their Patients that influenced my choice of career when I changed the path from education to work in hospitals in mental health and neuropsychology where I also did research.

Unless you write under more than one name, which is utterly pointless in trying to discuss something, I can see that you are not worth trying to discuss anything with. You make claims you cannot substantiate. A sensible and honest person would have checked that their writing was on the page before claiming it was there. If you are working as a Doctor this does not bode well for the profession.

Itsdifferentnow

You can choose how many posts you see per page. I see 25 which means I first saw a post by MuckyPlucky on page 5.
But you can choose to see up to 100 per page, so MP's posts would appear earlier to her if they've chosen to see more.

I'd say go for it. A friend retrained as a paramedic in her 40s another retrained as a vets assistant, also in her 40s

I think considering such a career is very commendable

Are you ok?

I haven't read the full thread, but absolutely do not do this at 37. Do not.

I went to med school at 28 (graduate program, 4 year course) and that is the oldest age I would ever suggest anyone do it. Really, it was too old, but borderline. And I am in Australia, where I'm led to believe that working conditions are somewhat better than the UK. I like my job, overall, and I've had a mostly-not awful experience, but if I had my time again I would not go to med school at the age I did. Please don't do it.

Retraining as a paramedic or a vets assistant in your 40s is NOT the same as going to med school. As a dr I regularly think of retraining (current thought is a primary school teacher)……it would take a year. A paramedic would take 3 years and then you are largely autonomous and on the road. Medicine takes 4-6 to graduate and another 5 to be autonomous as a GP and 10-15 if you stay in hospital medicine. I’m all for following your dreams and retraining if your current job doesn’t tick the right boxes, but not in medicine.

Famousperson2023

Retraining as a paramedic or a vets assistant in your 40s is NOT the same as going to med school.

A lot of people have no idea how hard, time-consuming and intellectually rigorous a medical degree and the subsequent training and exams are.

I think all the posts containing random platitudes ("Go to what pulls you"; "Go for it"; "Life is short - fly along that road"... probably haven't quoted these verbatim, sorry) are almost definitely written by people who have no experience of studying medicine or being a doctor. Although maybe they could get jobs writing inspirational wall plaques.

Comparing it with training to be a paramedic or a vet's assistant/nurse is ridiculous. I have friends and family who do both those jobs and I'm proud of them, but never for a minute would they say it was the same as getting to be a doctor.

Obs and Gynae is a very difficult speciality to get into in the first place and throughout your training you have to take MRCOG exams which have a very low pass rate at first sitting - and are expensive. Dd1 is planning on taking her second one this year.
Other speciality training places are also very competitive especially if you don't wish to move to the other end of the country. Dd1's dh wishes to stay within his deanery and having finished his core training is struggling to get a position. The upheavals are bad enough when you're young but once you're married with children it just gets worse!

LaMarschallin; 'You can choose how many posts you see per page. I see 25 which means I first saw a post by MuckyPluckyon page 5.'

Thanks. But it doesn't really support her idea of being on page one or even two. This was an exaggeration she made to boost herself. Plus she tries to make it seem as though she is supporting the OP and explaining the problems when in fact she is being scathingly sarcastic, with no empathy for Patients or desire to help the OP. She is illustrating the worst kind of Practitioner you could come across, thus underlining that bullying from colleagues is a real problem in the job.

I am amused that she reprints the entirety of my posts! Only she, and a side-kick for a brief time, seem interested. Surely it's best just to ignore a Writer you think is irrelevant or just point out they are and say why? An 'enabler' is well known in Psychiatry for her kind of personality. She even reprints the last which I wrote when I was very tired. I live with a lot of pain and my eyesight isn't brilliant, so by evening my typing isn't great.

I shall leave this MuckyPlucky situation now. She is a spiteful bully and not here to support the OP or bring anything sensible to this topic as her replies prove. I do not intend to derail the subject by replying to her sarcasm.

I am honestly disturbed by the systemic abuse F1s and F2s suffer in being moved across the country among other things. My most recent friendship with young Docs is with those who were fortunate in not having to move or travel excessive miles at this stage so it had not been brought home to me how dreadfully badly treated you are.

I intend to write to my MP and ask him to speak to the Health Minister. I did this a few years ago for the Midwives. I received a long reply so I know the issues hit home. If more of us, the people not in Medicine especially, did this, I believe it might have some impact. Especially in an election year. After all it is about Patient care in the long run. If Doctors are being driven to depression and such stress we shall soon not have enough of them.

Meanwhile I wish all Doctors the very best of luck and good health. Don't give up, and please keep doing whatever you can to improve things.

Itsdifferentnow

Thanks. But it doesn't really support her idea of being on page one or even two.

You're welcome.
Thing is, it does support MuckyPlucky's idea of being on page 2.
I see 25 posts per page: 25 × 5 = 125
So to be on page 5 on my phone, they must have posted between posts 100 and 125.
If MP sees 75 posts per page, then 2 pages would consist of 150 posts, so their post could easily be on page 2.

LaMarschallin

Thanks, you are right.

I think MuckyPlucky was unwise to draw attention to her post. It just shows her spiteful nature. Not a good advert for a Doctor.

I'm leaving the Thread now. The OP seemed to have left ages ago. But I am grateful to all the Doctors who have explained the details of how bad it is being shoved around the country at F1 and F2 and to AgeingDoc and ToeSucker for explaining how it is impossible for Doctors to raise any problems.

I'm still sorry I was so clumsy with Salacia and anyone else I led to think I blamed for not fighting the system for better treatment. Under this systemic bullying and threatening climate you indeed have no voice. They have taken away your human rights. It is horrific, the dreadful way you are threatened and bullied into sacrificing a normal family life, especially when you have spent over ten years studying and are now qualified, but the hierarchy do not allow you to speak out about it. WE, the public, should do this for you. If we value our Doctors, we really ought to be aware of the way they are treated by the system that rules them and we need to fight on the Doctors' behalf.

Everybody has the right to be able to lead a stable family life. Once past the early Student years of attaining a first degree or its equivalent, a Doctor's training should be allowed to continue working in places within a reasonable distance that does not split families up. There may be some areas of medicine that are not available nearby in some cases, obviously. But it should be the exception not the rule and adjustments and help be available plus extra funding extended for Doctors forced to stay away from home to cover a particular field.

Nobody in their thirties who has invested over ten years of hard graft and passed many exams should ever be told to live in Devon while their spouse is forced to go to Scotland and be separated from the children, then be given the option of leaving their career if they do not agree to the separation.

Whoever designed that system and spoke to the Doctors/Parents like that sound to me like somebody with a very nasty psychopathic streak in them.

Don't be an idiot, if this is your dream..go for it. One life and all that.