To be absolutely aghast after watching Mr Bates v the Post Office

[Vistada]

I binged all of this in one go, no spoilers (although the current state of play is easily findable...)

AIBU to be absolutely aghast that this happened, and happened for so long.
Absolutely dystopian!

Any why, when it appeared to the senior staff that there were problems with their software, did they not go back to Fujitsu and say "we paid you a shit load of cash for this system and it doesn't work. Fix it"

I would also like to know why Paula Venners, CEO of the Post Office, paid a massive amount to do her job, got a CBE for what appears to be "just doing her job"

Standard practice for senior civil servants and the like. Lollipop ladies who went out in all weathers for several decades to help schoolchildren and their families cross the road safely get a pitifully low salary and the British Empire Medal. MPs, senior civil servants and business moguls get the CBE or equivalent.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · Yesterday 17:44

I've been involved in two major IT system changes (as back office who had to make them work day to day). My observation with both was that management are so utterly committed, both financially and reputationally, to systems that they've been assured are all singing and all dancing, will solve all their problems and make them look so good with head office that they can't or won't admit that there's any problems.

This is so true (and common in education), where a new system is installed that is unfit for purpose, but the organisation top brass refuse to listen to those at the sharp end - the end users - when they're told the software is plainly not fit for purpose. Somebody's signed off on the new system, and they won't entertain admitting this and looking a prat, so everyone has to suffer because of some idiot/s ego.

@DriftingDora that is exactly it

But you do have to be an outstanding lollipop lady... whereas these public sector ceos see, to be awarded them no matter how catastrophic their reign.

I wonder what her dazzling services to the post office were though. Was it increasing profitability ?

Probably. And where did the money paid over to the PO by desperate SPMs to recompense the PO for the imaginary deficits in their accounts end up? Why, after a period in a suspense account, it was just added to the Post Office's revenue!

Yup this is our senior management to a tee.

if our managers had been Captain Smith not only would they not have seen the iceberg, they would have refused to believe the evidence of their own eyes and denied its existence, then tried to cover up the hole in the hull and told people they were totally wrong and being argumentative by claiming they had seen one

then in 5 years time another wannabe gets their next promotion explaining what everyone knew to start with, thAt the ship hit an iceberg

Especially shocking that the first time the PM was minded to be interested was after an ITV drama!!

Would the managers have also been re-arranging the deckchairs on the deck at the same time? 😃 If so, there's a job waiting for them (should they need it) in education management!!

@DriftingDora trust me the last thing Education needs is a bunch of feckless, incompetent police "Senior Leaders" who couldn't manage their way out of a one-way street

DH & I cried more than once watching this - it is truly shocking. That woman needs to be stripped of her CBE & Alan Bates needs to have some sort of formal recognition - what a man! I felt physically sick at the abuse of power & how all those innocent hardworking employees were treated.

😂No, you're right, there's enough already!

The documentary is being repeated again tonight

My partner was a former subpostmaster over 10 years ago now and left when it was clear the PO was on the decline. I've followed the stories over the years and could never understand why there wasn't more of a public outcry over the horrendous corruption and criminality of the PO. Why did it take an ITV drama for people to sit up and take notice? At least now, I hope justice will be served. Paula Vennells handing back her CBE is just the start. The public needs to maintain current momentum and continue to pressure the government to ensure that those at the top are imprisoned and the innocent compensated at the very least.

@vivisector possibly because it was quite complex and lengthy ? I had followed it with some interest when it came up on the news however it has taken a tv show to make me utterly outraged. I guess because it makes people empathise much more than a newspaper article, seeing it on screen, condensed and in an easily-understandable format.
much discussion was had at work today, almost all my team had watched it over our rest days and were gobsmacked.

Thanks I'll watch it.

@forcedfun I agree with you. Vennells needs to face consequences but there are so many others involved. When that postmaster visited Fujitsu HQ and they tried to cover it up by dissappearing the visitors book So many others who are culpable too

I watched a panorama programme about this a few years ago and read an article online about it too.
Private eye and a specialist computer magazine also ran with it for many years
Unfortunately it was a hard story to tell because of so many different aspects to it and a journalist on lbc said the same too.
The drama laid out the facts in a way that was easier to understand and also concentrated on a few of those affected , so it wasn't too complicated to follow. Just showing ordinary people in a very distressing situation.
It explained why some pleaded guilty too , which seems strange when they wasn't

What I find fascinating is that there must be people out there who manned those Horizon helplines at Fujitsu, who were delivering the scripts and knew they were lying but probably felt they had no option but to say and do what their bosses told them to do. And then you have the others like the whistleblower who were the ones actually messing about with the numbers. They will all be gagged of course, but imagine being one of those people right now. I bet their friends and families don’t even know.

They probably had absolutely no idea at the time that people were being prosecuted though.

It has been confirmed today that the CPS were involved in the prosecution of the sub postmaster's.

CPS confirms it prosecuted posties during Horizon scandal https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12946839/CPS-prosecutions-Post-Office-Horizon-scandal-Keir-Starmer.html?ito=native_share_article-top

Well. Well. Well

as a police officer at that time you practically had to have a watertight case for CPS to consider taking it to court. They would write things off for the flimsiest of reasons eg "well that plank of wood with nails in wasn't originally designed as a weapon and I do not consider it was made or adapted for use as a weapon, no charge" for someone ripping off a plank from a bench and using it to frighten people (yup true story, still makes me angry nearly 20 years later )

so I'd love to see this unfold

The more I've learnt of this the more I'm convinced it wasn't just a cover up of a not fit for purpose IT system but was a criminal conspiracy to willfully fraudulently accuse SPM's of theft and fraud in order to obtain money from them.
The PO were looking to reduce the number of SPO branches so this was a way they could do that without having to pay up the contract of the SPM and instead actually fraudulently take money from those SPM's in the process.

I think you are crediting them with two much intelligence. A huge bodge job that they then tried to suppress seems far more likely (both from Fujitsu and PO)

*too not two!

Well that's exactly what all involved... PO, Fujitsu and government ministers would like us to think.