To ask for guidance about old dog and our life

[Mimbuss]

We love our old girl dearly. We ate in our 60 s and my dh jas ongoing arthritis. Considering hip replacement.
our old girl is 15 and she used to come everywhere with us . We have a camper van . We domt use it now and havent been able to for 2 years as she now wees in the night ( she manages with pads at home but in a small van not so - we wsnr get sleep
for the last three years she hates travelling even to local town ten mins away .
she walks to the local pub occasionally but does nor cope or settle when there.
she has three / 4 walks a day . She sleeps nexr to me while i am in and when i am out she is often searching for me or sleeps.
she seems happy whilst awake -
small amount of time in the day.

she needs grooming but now does not understand that we are helping her so tries to bite us when we do it .
the vet says she coulld be tranqlised for this but at15 this affects her massively and she takes days to recover and wobbles.
the vet came to the house amd put km a small muzzle as alternative but she fought panted
and tho she is a mess( we cut bits off - ahe is non shedder) whilst she is asleep . But we cant do her eye area and its a mess.

she is a very gentle breed. People not dog oriented at all.
she has never been in kennels or had a dog sitter .

the thing is my dh arthritis is increasing ( he now struggles om local walks above a cple of miles.
ww want to lok after our old girl but also ourselves. We managed to go away for 4 nights this year aa our dd took leave so we could go away. She said by day 3 our dog was lay by the door waiting for me amd we felt awfiul .

I feel trapped between wanting a holiday Ans asking dd to come again or not having one and just look after her . My fear is that she may die when we are away as this actually happened to my childhood dog and the guilt would impact on us hugelu.

the only thing i can think of is separate holidays
… dd cant come often due to work and also she lives a days drive away
Ww live rurally and we have no relatives nearby and the dog sitter is lovely but due to our dogs missi
ng us ww are conflicted
we do not have longevity in our families and being in our 60 s we are aware our parents passed in 70s and we are aware pf not doing anything now for 3 years isjh

It would help to talk this through as i feel mentally that i cant make my mind up re this. I sometimes oh its only a week but then we panic thinking if we go would we spend the time worried!

we did think of maybe a cple of nighs locally but we are crave the sun

How long she been on the meds? At 14 our ddog was limping (swollen joints on just that leg) and vet put her on same as yours op. Couple of weeks in she wasn't happy. End of packet (30 days) we decided not to reorder. Ddog was back to her normal pretty much next day. Assumed a sprain but nothing more... Vet did offer us tests @£800.
We refused.. Ask for a recheck op.

Bichon

Santaisscouringindeedfornewjob will do rho she will need to be sedated. She had a twisted knee a cple of years ago
she sometimes squeals when she gets up ( rate) and sometimes when we pick her up. Again rare
she has always been v verbal about shock or pain so i am assuming she ja not in pain
for eg the other day she struggled for agws to push a poo out . I triedl to see what was going on and the squeal of suprise was dramatic

Sometimes it’s the cumulative situation of multiple deteriorating poor health issues that makes PTS the wise choice, and not just one major illness…

Have you spoken to the vet about propalin? My dog used to wee in her sleep/when lying down as she got older and it sorted it out.

Are you keeping her alive for your sakes or hers? Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

Kindly OP, her quality of life does not sound good. For me, it would time to PTS. I say this as a dog lover. It will be painful for her being lifted from the bed.

LaurieStrode sedatives make her woozy for days. She has her tail constantly down . And has fallen over
she has absences where she stands ans stares off and on and the sedatives increase it massively

we want to do the best for her . I thjnk. We need to try n shower the crusts off then try out best to clean eyes daily . This will really annoy her but hopefilly less so if her eyes are less uncomfy

other than that i giess we will ask vet to give sedatives tho she still has tried to bite with them in past
she is not a breed that can be disttracp by treats sadly !

We have done the quality of life test . She still enjoys her food . Barks for it . She still likes sniffs and small walks .

all she wants mostly is to sleep / doze near me . When i get up she follows me . If i go to another room she falls asleep there then makes and follows me again. The only tome she js not near me is the kitchen as she then goes ro her bed im the next room ( even if i offer hee a kitchen bed.

our vet is v kind and quite young
she says she ans some quality of life
tje old vet , who is very blunt
said co morbidity’s .. some people would be putting down by now .

Ah her quality of life doesn’t sound great tbh. Maybe it’s time before she gets worse? Heartbreaking decision I know x

I had a wee dog pts when she was 16 and looking back I probably should’ve done it the year before but couldn’t bring myself to admit it.
Your one actually sounds further on tbh.

Toileting issues, crusty eyes, biting probably in pain - really doesn’t sound good for the wee thing. Dogs mask their pain and misery so so much because they still want to be there for us.

Sorry to say this (I'm a big dog lover and I've had to make the decision to have mine PTS in the past) but it doesn't sound like she has a good quality of life these days.

You've said she sleeps most of the time, she's biting which suggests she is either in pain or very anxious, she's incontinent and she doesn't like being left. I would be rethinking the situation and making the right decision for her.

Thanks all
she can comtrol bladder n bowles just jot at night x

I think you said she is a bichon op? 14 or 15 is considered the lifespan across several vet websites and kennel clubs on the Internet, so your ddog is old, despite the fact that they can live longer. Something I read on here resonated with me, and that is that dogs don't think about tomorrow, or yearn for a long life, they live in the moment, and it's our responsibility to make sure that they are pain free, healthy and happy while they are with us. Maybe she isn't quite there yet, but realistically she is coming to the end of her life and I think you should be planning for that.

Oh OP, I do feel for you. She needs grooming and other treatments that upset her. The necessary tranquillisers take days to recover from. A lot of her old pleasures are gone. Yes, she has some quality of life, but not a lot.

We spent a fortune on delaying our dear cat’s death, and in the end the endless treatments seemed like vivisection. We got the vet to come to our house and put her to sleep. She died in my arms, purring until the last moment because she felt safe.

I’m in tears as I write this, but all I regret is that we went on trying to save her for too long. Her quality of life was reducing all the time. Yes, she could still feel happy with her people, but that was outweighed by the frightening treatments and her increasing weakness. We should have let her go sooner.

I hope you can make the right decision for your DDog.

tje old vet , who is very blunt
said co morbidity’s .. some people would be putting down by now .

So you have had some vet advice that it’s time. Just give it serious consideration. I know it’s hard.

I am so sorry, it's so hard to know what to do for the best. We have had beloved pets in the past and have had to make this decision.

My understanding is that she is biting or growling when you try to groom her or move her.

She is doubly incontinent in the night and is having trouble/finding it painful to poo during the day.

She has become more frail and anxious.

I have no experience of Bichons but 15 is a good age for any dog, and it does sound like she is experiencing pain and may not be as happy as you think.

I think you need to have a conversation with your vet about her overall prognosis. Look at all her symptoms as a whole, rather trying to deal with them as stand-alone issues.

It is hard 💐

Those meds made my ddog tired and not herself.

This is a very difficult time in a dog's life. There are all the age related ailments that plague humans to consider. Could she be having start of cataracts which makes it harder to see things and therefore more scary? Deafness? She can also be starting with dementia signs (the anxiety, being awake and restless at night etc are classic signs). There are some food supplements that may help (aktivait) and also some meds (nothing licensed in the UK for canine cognitive dysfunction but some meds available in the UK for anxiety are licensed for cognitive dysfunction in the USA, so worth arking your vet). Difficult to know if the incontinence is old age or pain related (ie it's too painful for her to get up so she rather just let things go rather than trying to get up on painful joints). Have tests been done to rule out urinary tract infections and kidney disease? Can be done with urine samples (so no need to actually visit a vet) as a first step, but bloods would likely be necessary if something felt "off". If no infection or kidney issues there are incontinence meds you can try that help in a lot of cases! Depending on her breed she may also be suffering a bit from dry eye, again that can be tested by a vet and treatment can be given, which will help keep discharge (and therefore matts) at minimum, There's also a good eye cleaner called Ocryl (made by a company called TVM) which you can use to help soften any dried off crust and keep eyes clean. Pain as other people said, arthritis, especially at later stages needs multi modal analgesia to provide good relief, so you may well need to add something to the Onsior, there's a lot of different optons and pain scales/questionnaires like one developed by liverpool university for chronic pain/arthritis that I recommend my clients to fill out every 4-6 weeks to monitor disease progress and treatment response so we can see if we need to change something or we're on the right track.
While sedating is an option (and often necessary if a lot has to be done grooming wise) there are also other meds that can be used for anxious dogs (your vet will know about this hopefully or tell them to research anxious dog vet visit protocols), these are medications that often can be given by mouth either in tablet form or sometimes even in gel form (there is one medication that is a low dose of a sedative drug that is licensed for noise anxiety, ie fireworks that can be tried) a few hours before a visit/groom and may be enough to "take the edge off" from those stressful situations. Also in some case if anxiety is a more chronic problem (as it sounds like your dog might be suffering a bit from separation anxiety) anti anxiety meds are available for dogs and sometimes make a huge difference to a dog's quality of life (also remember that dementia is well known to cause anxiety to humans and we strongly suspect the same is true for dogs and cats, imagine how scary the world would be if nothing is familiar and the one familiar person isn't there). Like with humans with anxiety there isn't a "one size fits all" magic pill so keep in mind finding the meds/doses that work best can be a process, don't get discouraged or give up too easily.
Lastly, euthanasia is and always will be a valid treatment option for a dog that just isn't enjoying life for whatever reason. It is not a wellfare concern for the animal (they don't know this is what's happening or why they are being taken to the vet) and often is a kindness if they aren't coping with the world anymore or if medicating for multiple different ailments is not feasible (financially, emotionally or pragmatically, for example if you have to fight with your dog daily to give all the medications necessary). Quality of life is just as important as quantity and not being in agony and whether still eating isn't and shouldn't be the standard with which we decide if QOL is ok.

My recommendation is have a proper and frank discussion about all your concerns with your veterinarian (as they have known your animal for so long and have access to all your medical history). Explain all your concerns as you laid them out here (and explain when you make the appointment that it will likely be a long one so you need a double or triple appointment). They will listen to all your concerns and come up with options and plans in which they think they might be able to help or if they think there isn't much to be done. Be frank with them and also ask them to be frank back. We are not only there for your dog's physical well being but mental well being as well and we always try and help as much as we can (or try and get you to someone else who might be better suited if we are out of our depth). And keep evaluating the situation often, good quality of life can change drasticaly within a matter of weeks or months, but often whilst you're in it it's difficult to see it as the deterioration is slow and gradual. Questionnaires really do help as they keep track of the same questions over a long period of time so you see the progress more easily (there's one really good one by NewMetrica but is subscription based, but looks at general lifestyle and parameters rather than just pain as a factor, like we should).

Best of luck to both you and your doggy!

Hello, it's not easy having a dog! My own dog needs grooming every 6 to 8 weeks lucky for me he loves the groomer, is your dog not enjoying grooms because she has arthritis and it hurts her? You can get grooming gloves that you can use whilst stroking her so she doesn't notice it so much, we used these when my dog had a poorly leg and had an operation, he woildnt let us near it but we found if i fed him treats and fussed him my son could then cut the hair back so it didnt look so bad. my own dog is fixated with me, follows me around etc and when I went away I thought he would miss me but no he was fine but very cuddly when I got back, why not have a pet sitter stay at your house with her? They would give you regular updates whilst your away to put your mind at ease

Thanks for that, @zusje. What a great and helpful post ❤️

Better to out her down a day too early than a day too late.

Hugs, OP.

zusje · thank you for such a detailed post . Really helpful .

zusje yes she has cataracts and is deaf
she can she a littke bit but struggles on night walks or bright sunlight
the vet things she has cognitive problems as sometimes she just stands and stares wirh her tail down . Some days she does this quite a lot . Others not much . If she does this we touch her and she comes out of it .

she enjoys short walks . Sniffs .
sometimes she does not and asks to come home straight away

the other day she was barking for treats and rolling on her back legs in air

she mostly wants to sleep next to me and whilst she has always followed me round the house she v much does so now

she is awake small parts of the day .

we desperately want to take her on holiday with us or a weekend away as she is part of our life .

i know holidaying isnt important and i wd 100 % not make thai a factor in any decisons but we are starting to struggle now as uts been perhaps 3 years and if we can find a way to take her that she could manage we would benefit .

thanks so much for listening .

Hi OP, my dog is 15.5 and similar. He's surprised us with continuing on!

He wears wee nappies now and that significantly diminishes the toil of bedding washing. Ref grooming I take my time and follow him round the house with clippers and scissors and clip at him. It works really well and I hoover up afterwards. Would do the same in the garden in the summer. I keep his fur as short as I can now and if he's cold we put a coat over him. Just an easy one that doesn't require legs manoeuvring.

We have accepted that if we want some time away we need to have a dog sitter! He's very suspicious of other people now but have found a dog sitter with her own dog who gives ours a bit of a new lease of life when she visits.

I am so sorry to read your posts, it is evident that you love her very much, but sometimes you have to decide what is in her best interests.

Honestly as other posters have said it is better to put a much loved pet to sleep a day early than a week too late. It is a dreadful decision to make and I do not envy you at all.