Aibu to be sick of this!! Dog breeders on sm

[MondayBags678]

Argh I am so sick of opening up fb or instagram etc and friends or people that I know having and advertising dog litters! Most the time cross breeds or their x breed crosses!! Advertising puppy’s for new homes
one has “7 needs new homes aged 8 week’s”
like why have you done it if you don’t have people lined up!! Aibu to think it’s irresponsible and selfish , as I thought dog shelters were over run! I have no issue if people breed responsible eg if there’s demand and they are doing all the research and relevant health testing etc etc but it feels like they are not thinking about anything other than a potential financial gain?

Past two days I’ve seen sausages dog litters looking for homes and cocker spaniels and poodle crosses and doodles etc etc lost count …. small google search tells me there’s over 90 odd litters of one particular breed in my area alone!!!!

even more annoying is them asking questions such as why is my bitch doing this? Why is the puppies doing that? Do I need to worm them etc etc

argh come on why oh why are you asking for advice on Facebook and not your vet or doing the bloody research before hand!!!

is it me or are other people noticing this? It’s making me sad as I am actually a dog and animal lover and I wasn’t against breeding as such until maybe the last year when I’ve been more aware of this

plus another woman I know bred her dog and had issues and all the litter died!! I won’t forget it! Doubt she will too.

job for today is to remove all these posts off my news feed as I don’t want to see it anymore.

Nah, I think that's partly true, if I'm honest with myself. But I adored my dog and will be getting another. Just this once, my ethical and environmental concerns can bog off because dog ownership was really good for me, better than therapy.

I think that — following a glut in pet ownership following COVID — the whole dog thing may have finally peaked, and people are advertising a lot of puppies because they’ve bred them thinking that this is still a way to make a fast buck, and in fact the demand is drying up. Hence the number of posts trying to find buyers.

I don’t dislike dogs per se, but the growth in dog ownership in the past few years in the UK has been utterly tiresome, especially the increasing difficulty of finding cafes and shops that don’t have dogs bringing their noise and smells inside.

I don’t see anyone on my social media selling puppies, but they wouldn’t be on my social media if they did. I’m glad to see fewer people buying brachycephalic dogs or those with other issues, I could just not understand why they’d want a dog that wasn’t ‘fit for purpose’ ie couldn’t breathe but I see dachshunds, renowned for severe conformation problems, seem popular currently.

Breeding without homes lined up is crazy. Breeding just because an animal can is horrific. There seems to be very few ethical breeders doing it to improve the breed, there are far too many people jumping on the bandwagon of popular breeds, people still breeding ‘mini bullies’ because they’re obviously stupid. As to the pp asking if they’ve checked the coi, these idiots randomly putting together any 2 dogs wouldn’t know what that is!

I too don’t mind dogs, my fiends have dogs I fuss them and enjoy their company when there.

I don’t have a dog or any pets in fact as I know I wouldn’t be able to provide them with the time they needed, we both work and have young children and I am studying so no time for extra things, I also like my house without animal smells and accidents that would occur again which would be all extra work and then of course the cost. This makes me a sensible person as I know and am honest that I don’t have what it takes to own dogs currently, unfortunately the vast majority of dog owners are not sensible

My vote is a chatbot algorithm being trained on MN threads.

thecatsthecats
This rationale only works if you don't view humans as animals.

We are animals but clearly higher-level animals, which is why we bother with such things as ethics. We could just not bother with ethics at all but I think most of us would end up living much more difficult lives. Survival of the fittest, every man for himself, no welfare state. If you are affected by the environmental consequences of oil exploration or mining, tough. Those are just a few things that immediately come to mind.

If you want to make the case that the benefits of pet ownership outweigh the ethical concerns, then that is an argument that has merit, if you can actually make it. ‘Let’s just not bother with ethics sometimes’, is arguably NOT worthy of respect.

DrBlackbird
My vote is a chatbot algorithm being trained on MN threads.

Are you referring to me? I don’t know whether to be pleased or offended!

YANBU

The only reason I support the XL bully ban is because I hope it’s a stepping stone to have stricter dog ownership laws.

People only care if the dogs are dangerous but don’t give a shit that there are hundreds, even thousands of dogs that are neglected and abused every day and it’s mainly because any idiot can buy one.

Having stricter breeding and dog ownership laws will reduce the number of dog attacks, reduce the number of nuisance dogs, reduce the number of dogs being neglected and abused and help the rescue centres by not being so overwhelmed.

Anyone who advertises or buys a litter off social media/pets4homes/gumtree is a mug. Most of these dogs are seriously sick and unwell as the morons breeding them know nothing about dogs and the ones that aren’t sick usually have behavioural issues as a result of the first 8 weeks of life being deeply traumatic.

It's against FB rules, but every time I report it FB says there's not an issue.

Luckily, my local fb group bans all animal sales and my breed specific group is for a rare breed, so no touting for business needed.

Isn't that what PETA was doing?...

We bought our puppy off pets4homes.
When we went to collect him it was from a pub the arse end of nowhere. We didn’t see his parents even though they claimed to own both of them. I know we broke all the puppy buying rules but once we’d seen him it was too late. We were in love. He came to us absolutely riddled with worms even though they said he’d been flead and wormed. Fortunately a swift vet check showed he was fit and healthy. We know we were lucky.

That's an opinion. An insane and extremist opinion. But an opinion.

If you cared about the environment then you wouldn't be using technology, because the cost of mining materials, production and disposal are damaging to the environment. I suppose that makes you a liar.

Judging you by your own lights...

My friends used to breed dogs. All done properly, always had a waiting list, buyers were vetted, KC registered, vaccinated, paperwork etc.

Their puppies sold for around £2k each and round 6 puppies per litter makes it quite lucrative for 9 weeks of work or whatever it is between birth and rehoming. I'd imagine that's what appeals a lot of these people.

That’s the problem though. People fall in love with these puppies on sight (because who wouldn’t?!) and then they can’t stand the thought of leaving them with the breeder. The ‘breeder’ knows that. There’s no right or wrong here either - it’s cruel to leave a puppy in those conditions and it’s silly to pay a breeder to enable them to continue.

And of course buying a puppy from a reputable breeder as @GreyCarpets friend is, is ridiculously expensive. Mine were £2.5K and £3K.

Buying a puppy responsibly (because not everyone can take a rescue - I was told I couldn’t) is insanely expensive because you’re not just paying for genetics, you have a contract with the breeder and are able to meet the mother, know the puppies inbreeding coefficient, the expected hip scores etc. So backstreet breeders are always going to exist.

It’s a vicious circle.

I am totally against puppy farms. However, given the abysmal failure that "professional" breeders (aka breeders of show dogs) have made with a number of breeds, maybe it's not such a bad thing that there are some of these breeds being bred by people who aren't interested in showing their dogs so aren't hung up in 'short muzzles', 'long ears', etc, etc which have caused so many problems for a number of breeds.

It’s a vicious circle though isn’t it? More dogs ending up in rescue homes because owners can’t handle them, but then these dogs often have behavioural issues because they haven’t been trained properly..which puts some people off taking them, or they get returned ..so people think a puppy is one that comes without any issues etc. and so it goes on

IMO breeding should be regulated with a license scheme, whereby in order to get a license the breeder requires proper breeder education. I also believe that dogs bought from breeders and require rehoming should returned to the breeder and responsibility for rehoming and costs should be shouldered by the breeder. This would give breeders the incentive to screen their customers. Of course responsible breeders always offer a return clause so this will not effect them at all but would really hit the backyard breeder market. Especially if the breeder is required to chip the puppies before sale with their info and then the breeder info is stored on the chip as well as owner information.

Unfortunately there are too many clueless backyard breeders who have no idea about health conditions, temperament and care for puppies and post partum bitches.

It's already a legal requirement (since 2016) that puppies must be chipped by age 8 weeks, which is also the youngest age they can legally be sold (except in extreme circumstances such as maternal death). Applies England, Wales and Scotland, not sure about NI.

The chip history will include both the vet who implanted it and the breeder who arranged it, and the purchaser's puppy pack will include chip info and code for changing chip to their name. If dog changes hands again, chip should be updated each time, and chip history should therefore show life-long ownership

That’s why it needs to be illegal instead of up to the discretion of private companies who make money by having people use their sites for this purpose.

I get what @Xis is saying. There are too many pets, and we get them for our own gratification and amusement. Nobody is talking about euthanasing animals in shelters - pet ownership is driven by supply and demand. If less people had pets, there wouldn’t be the thousands of animals looking for homes, and people thinking they are being selfless by “saving” them from a shelter. Nobody needs a pet. Working dogs and assistance dogs are not pets.

There was an interesting item on Radio 4 recently about the value of the pet industry. In the UK we spend nearly £6 BILLION on pets annually. I think that’s a shocking amount when children are sleeping in mouldy beds, hospital waiting lists are out of control and food bank use is at an all time high. People are so willing to buy the best diet for their cat or buy a new coat for their dog in case the poor darling catches a chill, but conveniently try not to think about the proportion of the population that lives under the poverty line.

And no, I don’t have kids, my primary mode of transport is a treasured bicycle, and I holiday in this country four years out of five, in case anyone asked.

https://www.clearwaterinternational.com/uk/publications/pet-market-clearview

It needn't be that expensive though. Those breeders are making a ton of money even after vet fees etc. They are still profiteering.

Just because a dog is KC registered doesn't mean it's healthy. The poor KC registered French Bulldogs ended up that way due to breeders selecting certain characteristics and breeding for them, hence the breathing problems they now have!
Alsatians also bred by KC have spine problems.
Dashounds another set up problems all due to 'responsible' KC breeders.... imo KC and responsible do not go together. I find what they have done to some breeds quite disgusting.

Your local council website will have information about dog breeding regulations.

I couldn't imagine having puppies in a flat.. that sounds awful for the dogs. And neighbours.

I've got one dog we got as a puppy (from a reputable breeder) who is easy, sociable with dogs and people... but it was full on intense work in the 2-9 months stage of regular active effort to get this. I have another younger rescue dog who we got at 9 months and is a bloody nightmare... we work hard with him and he is better, but the damage is already done and deep seated. He is everything wrong with amateur dog breeding and ownership... bought for £££ as a small breed from a small breed mum... by 9 months was very clearly NOT this breed.. subsequently have found out dad was a very big breed. Totally unsocialized, kept in completely inappropriate house for his actual size and breed and disciplined by force until we took him in. His owner genuine loved him but was completely taken in by a dodgy breeder and absolutely couldn't cope with what she ended up with.. had she got what she thought she was getting he would have been OK... this in no way validates what happened to him but absolutely started with a greedy unscrupulous breeder. For what it's worth he is walked in public muzzled, only exercised off lead at home (we have land to do this) and in secure dog fields we book for sole use, and we work hard on his fear and anxiety to make him feel safe. I would not ever rehome him, i would PTS , if we could not keep him.. I will not risk him or others if he were to be failed again..