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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parents anxiety / refusing to help themselves

69 replies

Needanap82 · 29/12/2023 09:44

Hi all, I haven’t posted much on here before. Sorry it's a bit long.
Context: Currently 7 months pregnant with my second child, also have a 4 year old DS. Parents are in their mid-70's, and live about 100 miles away. Dad has a rare type of ataxia which over the years has affected his mobility, and can also make him quite tired on some days. He refuses to use a mobility scooter so he can get out and about more, but is clearly depressed. He can still drive at the moment though. Mum is healthy, but more and more has to care for Dad as his illness gets worse, but overall he can still manage day to day. She often gets frustrated at him not leaving the house unless they're going in the car, and understandably feels trapped. However, also does nothing to take (what I see as) the pressure off him e.g. when driving down to visit me and my family. She complains that his awareness when driving is getting worse, but she never offers to share the load, as she hates motorway driving, but makes the excuse that Dad won't 'let' her, which I think is rubbish.
So with second child on the way, we have moved our DS into our second larger bedroom and his original room will be the nursery. It's too small even for a single bed, so parents have booked a hotel 10 min away whilst they visit for a few days this week. They've stayed at a hotel a couple of times previously, on the same road as the one where they're staying this time, so have driven the route to ours from that location loads of times. They have an old Garmin sat nav which they use sometimes, but for some bizarre reason, not when they get lost. It also doesn't have real time updates on routes.
About 18 months ago they visited and stayed in a hotel, same location as this time. On their way back one evening, the usual route was closed. It's a small town so the alternative route would have been easy to find if they'd used their sat nav. They didn't. Instead, they called me at about 11pm after driving around in circles and asked me to come out in my car so I could show them where to go and they could follow me to the hotel in their car. Which I did. About a year before, they had insisted that me or my partner do the same thing, 'because it was dark and they didn't know where they were going. ' we had just had our first DS and were shattered new parents. It is pretty much a straight road from ours to the hotel, but they refused to use their sat nav.
So this time, before booking the hotel, my mum asked for suggestions of others that are nearer, as she was anxious about something similar happening with roads being closed at night. I gave her a link to a B&B recommended by a friend which is 5 mins away, which they booked. She then announced last week that they had cancelled that and were going back to the original hotel location as they 'didn't like the sound of that B&B and didn't know where they would park.' My dad has a blue badge so can park pretty much anywhere. I visited them about a week ago and my mum was still flapping about finding their way to the hotel. I said she just needed to use google maps, and she scowled and said 'why?'
So they arrived on Wednesday, stopped at ours for a few hours, and sure enough when it was time to go to the hotel, they asked my DP to get in his car and show them how to get there, with them following in their car. I wasn't in the room at the time, and was livid when DP told me. Tbf, he said he offered, but expected them to say no, as they have been there so many times.
Yesterday, they were with us most of the day, and left early evening. During the afternoon, I sat in their car with my mum and set up her phone via the Android app so they could get google maps on screen. Walked her through how to access it. Sent her the same basic instructions to her phone. As I've set it up, it will automatically connect when she's in the car, so just need to select the maps function. She said 'oh great, this is good, we can practice using it when when we get back home next week.' I said, 'well you could use it this evening on the way back to the hotel, as you already know where you're going.' She didn't reply.
Time for them to leave in the evening, DP mentioned that the previous evening they clearly knew where they were going, as my dad was signalling for turns even before DP did. They literally told us what the route was, and said yeah yeah we know where we're going. They left before dinner as dad was very tired. Mum had mentioned to me that her night vision is not great, but dad's is worse.
10 mins after they left, my mum rang the doorbell. Said they got lost. Missed a turning. DP had answered the door. He said but you've got the sat nav, you could have just used it. Mum apparently turned her nose up and said 'I'm not using that.' DP explained the directions again and they went. He is 1000x more patient than me, but even he was flabbergasted. Also, my dad was driving. Why not mum if he was that tired and his night vision is even worse than hers?

When DP told me what happened, my heart sank. I do not understand the refusal to do something so basic, and instead constantly expect us to mollycoddle them. I have a difficult relationship with them as it is, I'm always stressed when they visit as we rarely go anywhere unless it's in the car because of dad's mobility, and they rarely listen to anything I say to try and help them, or suggest I'm being disrespectful if I get frustrated with them. But it's tiring, and I feel it's unreasonable to have this palava every time they visit. Baby is due early March, they will always need to stay in a hotel from now on as we don't have the room. Will they expect us to keep 'showing them the way' every time they visit? The ridiculous thing is they use the internet loads and both have smart phones, so it's not like they are totally in the dark ages! AIBU?

OP posts:
Gliblet · 29/12/2023 09:55

YANBU to be frustrated but YABU to keep pandering to it.

'I'm not using [the sat nav]'
"You'll need another way of finding your way there then."

'Your father's tired'
"You'll need to drive then won't you?"

'You're going to need to come and drive to [location] so we can follow you'
"No, you need to follow the map/directions/switch on the sat nav"

And remember it's like training a dog, any inconsistency will undo progress so make sure you and your DP are both being consistent.

With any luck post baby you'll be so tired any suggestion of martyred 'poor little us' CFery on their part will be met with variations on 'nope, he hasn't slept, I'm feeding baby, DS needs a bath/meal/school play hedgehog costume making, get on with it'.

NewIdeasToday · 29/12/2023 09:56

To be honest it sounds like they should not be driving anymore as they are just finding it too confusing and this part is really worrying “Mum had mentioned to me that her night vision is not great, but dad's is worse.”

What if they failed to see a cyclist or pedestrian?

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, given how difficult things are already.

Could they travel by train, stay at the hotel and just get a taxi to and from your house instead?

thaegumathteth · 29/12/2023 10:05

It doesn't sound like they should be driving tbh....that would be my first concern.

Other than that i sympathise. My mum and MiL are like this to varying extents but are in denial / completely oblivious as to how much they are requiring help. I get it must be difficult to accept the march of time but to not even try to improve things is incredibly infuriating.

I will say though this bit

I have a difficult relationship with them as it is, I'm always stressed when they visit as we rarely go anywhere unless it's in the car because of dad's mobility,

Is hard to read. I have mobility issues - I'm only in my 40s and it does limit what I can do. I do use a mobility aid to help but it doesn't completely alleviate issues and id be really upset to hear my kids are frustrated about something that isn't my fault.

BonnieIou · 29/12/2023 10:12

Both mid 70s, prob shouldn't be driving, prob have a lot of anxiety. Sounds like the other option is to not see them. If this were me I'd get them from the hotel and drop them back to make sure they are OK. Elderly people are too confused by technology, 99% of them who I know wouldn't use a sat nav, or even a phone more than to answer it or make a call.

Santaisscouringindeedfornewjob · 29/12/2023 10:16

So they need to be back at the hotel before dark then... Draw a map instead of relying on tech. Or dh has a drink and can't show them the route..

Needanap82 · 29/12/2023 10:17

Thank you. Yes I've thought that myself about the driving sometimes, but tbf, it seems they recognise this themselves and very rarely drive once it's dark. Maybe what I need to suggest is that they always go to the hotel during the day, and then back and forth to us by taxi, so if it's in the night, there's no stress. They can be so tight though, I'd probably have to pay for the cab! 😄

OP posts:
Yazo · 29/12/2023 10:19

YANBU but personally I've found counselling massively helpful for dealing with parents that leave me feeling like this. They won't change but you can honestly do some things that will make you able to deal with them. Also other people have parents a bit like this too, you're not alone even if it feels like everyone else's parents can function better

Santaisscouringindeedfornewjob · 29/12/2023 10:20

Find a bus route. .

Needanap82 · 29/12/2023 10:27

@thaegumathteth that wasn't my meaning, sorry if that's how it came across. What's frustrating is his point blank refusal to use (or even try) any mobility aids at all, except for a walking stick which he reluctantly started using about 5 years ago after one if his sisters challenged him on it. It is mainly pride stopping him I think, which I understand, but it makes it very difficult to really enjoy our time when we visit each other, considering we have a 4 year old who is happiest outdoors and has a mountain of energy to burn, and my dad literally can't walk more than about 200 metres before he's completely wiped out. As we usually visit for a few days at a time, the cabin fever can set in, and it's not nice suggesting that my dad stays at home whilst the rest of us go out together. I just wish he'd at least try, and think it would also help him and my mum get out of the house more regularly for walks together etc, which would be good for both of them.
Hope that makes sense.

OP posts:
Needanap82 · 29/12/2023 10:32

Train to ours would mean a 3.5 hr journey (vs 2hr in car), via London, including changing train stations from one part of central london to the other. With dad's mobility issues it would be really tiring for them.

OP posts:
Janetinthebath · 29/12/2023 10:39

Do you live in London?
Do they?
Is it the thought of “driving in London” that is making your mum anxious?
My mum is like that. Works herself into a lather at the mere thought of “driving on the motorway” even though the little stretch of motorway near us is far easier to drive than the dual carriageway that she drives weekly.
There is no logic to it, and she doesn’t want to be put right or to listen to suggestions, she just wants me to take the problem away.
I think it’s age and the overwhelm that comes with it.

5foot5 · 29/12/2023 10:40

Your last update about refusal to use mobility aids due to pride sounds very, very familiar from my experience with PILs.

My late DM had mobility issues too but was prepared to try aids. She did actually buy a mobility scooter although she didn't often use it, I think she was a bit scared of it. But she had a folding wheelchair which we could stick in the boot of the car and take her out and about.

My late MIL had dementia and as it got worse she couldn't walk far. One Easter when they were coming to stay with us we suggested hiring a wheelchair so we could take them out for the day. FIL wouldn't hear of it and insisted she wouldn't like it. Any outing we attempted that weekend was a wash out as she couldn't make it more than a few metres from the car before she was exhausted. The following year they gave in and agreed and she was absolutely fine being pushed around in the chair.

We are a few years on now and MIL no longer with us. FIL is but at nearly 93 can't walk far. I aren't even suggest a wheelchair, he would be massively offended. But we are very limited what we can do with him when he visits

Needanap82 · 29/12/2023 10:48

@Janetinthebath No we moved out of London a few years back. In Essex now, and they are in Midlands. Yes your mum sounds very similar, mine will also regularly drive on dual carriageway where they live without a second thought. It is disproportionate anxiety that has been allowed to grow over they years. I've also tried talking to my dad about it, 'help build her confidence by getting her to do some of the driving and give you a break' , but they're both as stubborn as each other, always an excuse not to do something, grrrr.

OP posts:
14Q · 29/12/2023 10:49

Why don't you or your DH just give them a lift to and from the hotel. Would save a lot of hassle and so much safer for everyone

Santaisscouringindeedfornewjob · 29/12/2023 10:51

Op and her dh have their own lives and soon a dc. They aren't in a position to be on hand chauffeurs nor should they be.

pukkapine · 29/12/2023 10:51

In terms of the getting lost on the way to hotel and refusal to use Google Maps or a satnav, that sounds like weaponised helplessness. They are getting you to jump. So all you can do is refuse to engage in that game. "Sorry Mum, we can't come out, I'm putting DS to bed and DH has had a drink" repeat repeat. No.

As for your dad's mobility (and I say this as someone who often has to use a wheelchair due to fatigue and pain), he has to live with the consequences of his decision. So, yes it's hard he can't do things, and it would be wrong to exclude him from things where there are accessible options, but if he chooses not to use a mobility aid to make it accessible to him then you shouldn't feel bad going out for your four year old. It's his choice. You could try something to get him started while you are pregnant (I did this genuinely with my dad and it had the desired effect) - go to a National Trust type place and borrow a mobility scooter for yourself because your 'uncomfortable with the bump'. Then as soon as dad fatigues, say "oh you must use the scooter'. He may just start getting used to it that way and be more open to using one regularly.

Honestly though, as someone who has had to use a wheelchair since I was in my early thirties, he's just got to get over the pride issue for everyone else's sake but also his own!

guineverehadgreeneyes · 29/12/2023 10:54

I have a family member (late 70s) who is becoming less confident about driving. They have been driving for over 50 years and very experienced. Over the last couple of years, they are no longer confident driving in the dark, in busy urban arears especially during heavy traffic, on motorways and on unfamiliar routes. Even on familiar routes, they are more likely now to miss a turning and then get "lost" when they have missed a turning. Our car is an old one and does not have satnav.

I don't drive and we are resigned to the fact that for certain situations like an unexpected local drive in the dark or an appointment that requires driving through a very busy urban area during rush hour, we will now book a taxi rather than have him drive, drop us off, then pick us up again.

It sounds to me as though both your parents have reached the point when they perhaps should not be driving other than for short journeys on familiar local roads.

There are so many manic drivers about now and you need to be able to react very quickly to the bad driving of others which adds another layer of complexity. If your father has a form of ataxia, his executive function, planning, reaction times etc may also be impaired as well as his mobility.

You've mentioned the difficulty of your father using trains but would coaches be an option for them?

usernother · 29/12/2023 10:58

OMG. That would drive me mad. If the hotel is near to your house why don't they just get taxis and leave the car. I'd tell them they have to do this if they won't use the sat nav.

Needanap82 · 29/12/2023 10:59

@5foot5 sorry to hear that about your in laws. Although well done for managing to persuade your MIL eventually. I booked my parents tickets for Eden project a few years ago, and there was no way my dad could do it without hiring one of their scooters (and I'd checked it all out beforehand). I hoped he would do that and it might help him come round to getting his own. He acknowledged to me that it was a bit difficult to get used to, but he was ok using it...but then just went back to denial. My mum said he was very reluctant when they were there, and a member of staff had to tell him pojnt blank that he wouldn't be able to manage without it, at which point he relented.
A couple of years ago they went on a cruise with some of their oldest friends, and apparently he went ape shit at the suggestion of them borrowing a wheelchair so they could explore further each time they docked, effing and blinding at them They were all prepared to take turns pushing him, but he was having none of it. So even when they docked, him and my mum would end up staying on the ship, or could really only stay quite close to the harbour and their friends would go off on their own, unless the cruise organisers themselves were putting on a coach trip of some sort. They haven't been on holiday since, just sit in their house.
It's just really sad and painful to watch, because my dad is one of the most open minded people you would ever meet, but on this he just cannot come to terms with how his body now functions or how he might adapt to make things better for himself.

OP posts:
zingally · 29/12/2023 11:06

I sounds like they probably shouldn't be driving at all, if a simple 5-10 minute drive to a location they've been to many times before is too much for them.

Alternatively, why don't you just drive them yourselves? For all the agro this seems to be causing, perhaps the simplest answer is just to load them into the back seat of your own car and drive them back to the hotel/pick them up yourselves?

mollyfolk · 29/12/2023 11:06

It sounds like your dad shouldn’t really be driving beyond popping into his local supermarket. His ataxia seems to be impacting his skills. The night vision thing is a worry - I would definitely go for taxi’s and just pay for them if that is not a big deal for you.
my PIL are the same about not going places ect…. I know it’s very frustrating but they are making an enormous effort doing something that is very difficult for them in order to see you and have a relationship with your kids. You can’t change but you can reframe how you see their behaviour so you find it less frustrating.

fromhellsheartistabatthee · 29/12/2023 11:09

Which is the biggest/most reliable local taxi firm? Download their app. To your parents' phones, not yours.

EmmaEmerald · 29/12/2023 11:10

OP I think you're being a bit harsh, and you and your parents are being unrealistic about what they can do.

From injuries in my 20s and 30s, I think mobility aids are hard work, what they are like in 70s with ataxia, I don't know.

Of course everyone's capability level is different but you mention your dad can't do much with your son. That won't change with an aid.

I found people thought an aid was like a prop that would get you back to "normal". It isn't.

I don't think they should be driving either but they shouldn't pass any costs to you.

I stopped driving for a range of reasons, of which anxiety was just one. But they can stop driving for any reason they want.

You talk about your mum's anxiety being allowed to develop - many would say the same of me, but it's my decision. She shouldn't pressure your dad to drive.

I understand the frustration of looking after elderly parents. The reality is you might all need to see each other less often.

In general, it sounds like you need to review things as a family. Are they feeling pressured to spend time with you?

My mum refuses to use a wheelchair too. I understand and respect that choice.

These trips - their friends, the boat, the Eden Project - do they actually want to do them? Or have they let themselves be talked into it?

Things to think about for all of you, I guess.

Nicole1111 · 29/12/2023 11:18

Next time they come hide your car round the corner and say it’s in the garage for repairs, they’ll have to use their phones as they’ve been shown how to do.

OceanicBoundlessness · 29/12/2023 11:26

It sounds like some of the choices they are making are making them old before their time. The tricky thing is separating their actual abilities from the limits they are placing on themselves and what looks like a learned helplessness.

What strikes me is your mum's reluctance to drive might mean she's very stuck if anything were to happen to your dad. What if was in hospital and she needed to visit him?

The smaller they make their world the more anxious they'll be about stepping outside of it.. Again it will become hard to separate what is an induced anxiety that's holding them back and what is not still within their ability. Anxious feelings can have a terrible impact on cognitive and physical ability.