BIL obsessed with my baby?

[RoseyPosey12]

I have an 8 week old baby. It's my first and it has been quite the rollercoaster both physically and emotionally so my judgement may well be clouded. I therefore am happy to be told if I am being oversensitive/too precious if that is the case!

I feel as though my BIL is overinvested in my daughter Whilst individually his behaviour and comments might not seem like a big deal, collectively it is creeping me out. For context, BIL is married with two boys of his own. He is a few years older than my husband and they have an ok relationship. Whilst they do obviously love each other, I do sense that my BIL does have some jealousy towards my husband as a result of how their respective lives have panned out. My husband will occasionally pop down to see him and his family and they talk regularly on the phone. I don't have a close relationship with him nor his wife. We are civil but we have nothing in common so will usually just see them on special occasions.

Below are the things that have happened. In hindsight, I wish I had nipped things in the bud earlier on. I put down my being a doormat to not feeling mentally well at the time and being a new mum and not having a clue how to navigate family relationships with people who are connected to my daughter but who I don't have much of a relationship with:

When he first found out I was pregnant he insisted to my husband that we move closer to him so that he can take care of the baby when I returned to work. Has never said it to me directly. I think my husband just laughed it off.

My husband announced the birth of our baby on a Friday and explained that we were not accepting any visitors for the time being to allow me time to recover. He then showed up to our house on the Sunday uninvited to see the baby. My husband asked if I would be ok for us to let him in (had been waiting outside for 30 minutes) and I agreed. On Monday he came with his family which we had agreed to. On Tuesday he came again this time to bring younger brother who can't drive and wasn't able to come the day before which was again an agreed visit. For the first and third visit he stayed for hours late into the night and spent most of it holding the baby aside from feeds/nappy changes. I found this really difficult as baby was only a few days old. Visit with family was short as I kept having to tell his kids off so it got very awkward and they left. The first time he came I struggled to say I wanted the baby back. On the second day, when I took the baby back he then took the baby under the guise of having videocalled my mother in law and so wanting to show her the baby even though my husband frequently video calls her and shows her the baby anyway. On the third visit I just took the baby off him when I wanted to which he seemed quite miffed about and shortly left. Anyway, despite three visits in a row which involved extensive holding of the baby, he then text me on Thursday night saying that he is really missing my daughter and whilst he is doing his best to hold his emotions, he doesn't know how long he can hold them for though doesn't want to disturb me. I refused any further visits and said my husband will be in touch to arrange a visit in the future.

After that I was back in hospital so have had a quiet few weeks at home without visitors to support my recovery. He recently got back in touch stating he wanted to see the baby. Again redirected him to my husband to arrange a visit. He came this week and the following happened:

1. He wouldn't let his younger brother hold the baby insisting the baby preferred him so my husband had to intervene.
2. When speaking to the baby he kept saying how when she is older he will take her out with his kids or by herself without us, that they will have their own special relationship, she doesn't need anyone but him, they will have their own private conversations, he will take her out cruising in his car whilst I will be at home calling her to find out where she is (NOTE: it does translate differently in our native language and can be the sort of things one might jokingly say in our culture but he kept on making these comments and wouldn't stop. My husband wasn't present for this)
3. When I held the baby, telling me to put her down as she will sleep more comfortably. To me it felt like he couldn't bear to see me holding her and was finding an excuse for me to put her down so that presumably he could pick her up- I refused. Again husband wasn't there.
4. Then 20 minutes later taking the baby off me (which I was fine with initially) but then explaining she wasn't getting the warmth she is looking for hence taking her off me presumably to provide her with the "warmth" she needs (NOTE: difficult to translate into English but essentially the warmth refers to the human comfort and body heat rather than needing an extra blanket)- I was too shocked to even say anything but she obviously started crying and I swiftly took her back. Again husband wasn't there.
5. When leaving jokingly suggesting that the baby stays with him for two weeks and my husband and I can go on holiday- we flat out said hell no

There are also wider things about him that annoy me such as constantly giving us advice that I didn't ask for, generally chatting rubbish, and his insistence on bringing his kids again when I have already indicated as politely as I could that I am not comfortable having his kids around her. His kids are completely wild and receive no discipline. At their last visit my baby nearly ended up getting seriously hurt and the entire visit was just super stressful for my husband and I trying to manage my baby as well as his kids.

So in summary suddenly seeing more of my BIL since having a baby has been exhausting. I feel like I am constantly having to push back or challenge what he says in a bid to get him to stay in his lane. I could get my husband to do more of that but to be honest if the comments and behaviour is towards me I feel its better for me to be the one to respond rather than hiding behind my husband. On top of that as I say, now I am just completely creeped out but unsure if I am overreacting and reading too much into things. I really didn't anticipate any of this in the slightest whilst pregnant largely because I had such limited interaction with him.

Anyway would love to get an outsiders point of view. My husband wasn't best pleased with his behaviour when I discussed with him and happy to support whatever I choose to do going forwards.

YABU: he is being a loving uncle and you are overeacting
YANBU: he's behaviour is creepy and you need to set some boundaries ASAP

When speaking to the baby he kept saying how when she is older he will take her out with his kids or by herself without us, that they will have their own special relationship, she doesn't need anyone but him, they will have their own private conversations, he will take her out cruising in his car whilst I will be at home calling her to find out where she is (NOTE: it does translate differently in our native language and can be the sort of things one might jokingly say in our culture but he kept on making these comments and wouldn't stop. My husband wasn't present for this)

I've just thought about this from a different angle. ..is your husband's brother very jealous of him and competitive with him?

Because it sounds like he wants to wind you both up .... About him establishing an independent, special relationship with your child - that excludes you.

And all the holding the baby and dominating and making you uncomfortable is rather along those lines too, and maybe he thinks he'll get the "bond" going from as young as possible.

I'm wondering if he (secretly or not) is really really jealous of his brother, always in competition... And this; his brothers first child, he sees as an opportunity to be competitive again . In a very personal/"intimate" way;

. "Oh she prefers me, she loves her uncle, she prefers our family, we have a special bond" .... To get at him - and get at him through you.

He's naturally got you uncomfortable and stressed, and he can't truly be so utterly obvious to that, can he?
Is he enjoying it? And perhaps enjoying that he can do it and if you complain to family members - he'll just say "oh it's all jokes, she's so sensitive, she's such a hormonal new Mother, she's so upright".

I've actually revised my opinion from "unhinged, potential paedo" to think that it might be a power/dominance game.

Has he always been a bit jealous and competitive with his brother? Does he feel like his brother is the favoured one? Is he always jibing and "jokily" getting at him (and you)?

Maybe he's pissed off you two have produced the first (?) grand daughter. Something new/special.

He seems to be determined to get in there in the middle of your bond (both of your).bond with you child and intercede and take a position he shouldn't have.

If he had a history of power plays and dominance disguised by "joking" and banter, this could just be the latest.

I think he wants you two unsettled and uncomfortable and "insecure".

He's doing it through you too. Maybe if he did it too obviously in front of his brother it might turn into an argument/he might even risk it becoming physical; by doing it to you, and saying most of these things in front of you, not him; he's doing it to the person who is unlikely to get physical, who can't physically overpower or eject him and who, when she reports what he's said, will likely get "oh you know what he's like, he's only joking around, she's too sensitive, she's a woman, she's hormonal, she's over protective, blah blah blah".

Even in this least worst case scenario, he's clearly a nasty piece of work, there's clearly an extremely unhealthy family dynamic, and you'd be better far away from these people with your child.

I found that really alarming, his comments about private chats etc are akin to grooming. I'd honestly cut him off. I wouldn't want him knowing anything about my child. I honestly wouldn't care about how it went over with family... you can't take back innocence.

Glad to read your update OP. I think you need to very subtly manipulate the situation to ensure your DH feels his brother is trying to undermine him and interfere with his family. I am usually a direct and honest person, but in these circumstances you really need to make sure your DH is never manipulated by BIL into agreeing to any solo time with your DD.

He thinks it's safe for him to voice his thoughts because nobody will take them seriously, except OP as the baby's mum, who he thinks he can bully into submission.
And he's partly correct, because his brother is only partially alarmed, and doesn't believe that he'd actually harm her.
I'm sure my mum didn't think her brother would rape me when I was 3 either. He did.

When he visited with his family, his wife said that she was jealous I had a girl as she had wanted one and so was really hoping I would have a boy..

Wow, she sounds lovely too.

I think there is a lot of truth to this. There is definitely jealousy towards my husband and he does "jokingly" try and make digs but has also openly expressed his jealousy for husband to other relatives for example complaining that we have gone on so many holidays this year and he can't afford one etc. I do find it weird that he has chosen me to compete with though rather than my husband. Maybe he saw me as the weaker target on this occasion. Perhaps he thinks parenting is the only facet of life where he can finally throw his weight around and demonstrate his expertise. Or perhaps he hopes to take some credit towards her upbringing as I know he has previously tried to take credit for my husband's achievements emphasising how his support was so critical.

I know that he has complained to his mother before that no one likes his children. This isn't the case at all. Its just that they are absolutely wild and so are very difficult to be around. For instance I've seen one chase the other with a hammer before. So maybe he feels threatened by a new baby in the mix or as I say wants to get some glory and credit for her given he perceives he failed to do so with his own sons.

If any of this is the case then his jealousy and possibly cultural ignorance has completely blinded him to how he comes across. Either way still creeps me out.

So sorry to hear you went through this 😞

At the risk of sounding sexist I find it extremely unusual, in fact unique - to hear of a man being so intensely interested in and emotional about and wanting to have contact with a baby who's not his own

I think this behaviour would be equally weird in a woman.

Lol! Yes she is a whole other oddball. Don't get me started.

I do feel confident this would never happen. My husband would never leave my child alone with someone without confirming with me. Plus he thinks BIL and his wife's parenting approach is diabolical and doesn't want our daughter being influenced by that so already has his own reasons for wanting to keep some distance.

OP please don’t doubt yourself, this is not normal behaviour and as someone else said, why did he want a girl so much? shudders. I am concerned that he even has two boys because, you know! You hear things! He sounds unhinged and quite arrogant in that he’s comfortable enough to voice his future plans in front of you, and wait until
his brother has left the room before he bypasses everything you say and does what he wants anyway.

I would not be surprised if he realises how he sounds and tones it down to appear more trust worthy.

When your DD starts nursery and school i would make it clear to the teachers that only mum and dad collect unless you have specifically called ahead that day to say another relative will be collecting. Don’t be afraid to mention it’s because of a problematic relative to drive across how important it is, teachers are taught about safeguarding kids and I’m sure it won’t be the first time in their career they hear a parent say that. I can picture your BIL rocking up and saying “I’m her uncle, just collecting her today because mum and dad both stuck in traffic”.

SA happens all over the world and has done since year dot, just because it isn’t recognised culturally means nothing. It happens because relatives turn a blind eye, they are often themselves and don’t suspect the abuser, all sorts of reasons. Trust your gut. Please stand up for yourself and your daughter if he says anything creepy!! A firm
no! No means no! A laugh and “you realise you sound like a creep right now”.

*groomed themselves

Did his wife come?

What are her reactions to all this?

She was only there for the second visit which was quite short due to their kids also being there. It was really chaotic and I ended up having to keep telling his kids off so it got very awkward and they left. The only strange thing at that visit was him taking the baby off me under the guise of showing the baby to his mum on video call which I doubt anyone else would have suspected as being odd. When they came, they both had a chance to hold the baby and then I took her for a feed and came back into the room and was holding her. As I say, it was really chaotic plus I was distracted talking to SIL when BIL asked if he could take the baby for 2 seconds as MIL really wants to see her (it wasn't 2 seconds, he ended up holding her throughout the remainder of the visit). I did think at the time this was rather contrived because usually one would just hold up the phone if she was on video call so she could see the baby but he had propped up the phone on the sofa with MIL waiting and then came to take the baby off me. Plus it all seemed rather unnecessary as my husband videocalls his mum regularly anyway. At the time I ended up brushing it off as me reading too much into it because it seemed ludicrous that someone would create a scenario just so they can have an excuse to continue holding someone else's baby. However I am convinced my theory is right because at the visit this week he seemed to try and manufacture this scenario again twice. He claimed that his kids had videocalled to see the baby but it very much looked like it was him who had videocalled them. This time I wasn't so distracted and we were sitting opposite each other so to suggest can I take the baby for two seconds etc wouldn't have worked well so I think he decided not to follow through and instead he took the route of the whole taking the baby because she wasn't getting the warmth she wants that I mentioned earlier. Plus I made a point of saying that I hadn't even heard his phone ring!

Sorry went off on a complete tangent!

Get the police involved.

And say what? Nothing illegal has happened.