BIL obsessed with my baby?

[RoseyPosey12]

I have an 8 week old baby. It's my first and it has been quite the rollercoaster both physically and emotionally so my judgement may well be clouded. I therefore am happy to be told if I am being oversensitive/too precious if that is the case!

I feel as though my BIL is overinvested in my daughter Whilst individually his behaviour and comments might not seem like a big deal, collectively it is creeping me out. For context, BIL is married with two boys of his own. He is a few years older than my husband and they have an ok relationship. Whilst they do obviously love each other, I do sense that my BIL does have some jealousy towards my husband as a result of how their respective lives have panned out. My husband will occasionally pop down to see him and his family and they talk regularly on the phone. I don't have a close relationship with him nor his wife. We are civil but we have nothing in common so will usually just see them on special occasions.

Below are the things that have happened. In hindsight, I wish I had nipped things in the bud earlier on. I put down my being a doormat to not feeling mentally well at the time and being a new mum and not having a clue how to navigate family relationships with people who are connected to my daughter but who I don't have much of a relationship with:

When he first found out I was pregnant he insisted to my husband that we move closer to him so that he can take care of the baby when I returned to work. Has never said it to me directly. I think my husband just laughed it off.

My husband announced the birth of our baby on a Friday and explained that we were not accepting any visitors for the time being to allow me time to recover. He then showed up to our house on the Sunday uninvited to see the baby. My husband asked if I would be ok for us to let him in (had been waiting outside for 30 minutes) and I agreed. On Monday he came with his family which we had agreed to. On Tuesday he came again this time to bring younger brother who can't drive and wasn't able to come the day before which was again an agreed visit. For the first and third visit he stayed for hours late into the night and spent most of it holding the baby aside from feeds/nappy changes. I found this really difficult as baby was only a few days old. Visit with family was short as I kept having to tell his kids off so it got very awkward and they left. The first time he came I struggled to say I wanted the baby back. On the second day, when I took the baby back he then took the baby under the guise of having videocalled my mother in law and so wanting to show her the baby even though my husband frequently video calls her and shows her the baby anyway. On the third visit I just took the baby off him when I wanted to which he seemed quite miffed about and shortly left. Anyway, despite three visits in a row which involved extensive holding of the baby, he then text me on Thursday night saying that he is really missing my daughter and whilst he is doing his best to hold his emotions, he doesn't know how long he can hold them for though doesn't want to disturb me. I refused any further visits and said my husband will be in touch to arrange a visit in the future.

After that I was back in hospital so have had a quiet few weeks at home without visitors to support my recovery. He recently got back in touch stating he wanted to see the baby. Again redirected him to my husband to arrange a visit. He came this week and the following happened:

1. He wouldn't let his younger brother hold the baby insisting the baby preferred him so my husband had to intervene.
2. When speaking to the baby he kept saying how when she is older he will take her out with his kids or by herself without us, that they will have their own special relationship, she doesn't need anyone but him, they will have their own private conversations, he will take her out cruising in his car whilst I will be at home calling her to find out where she is (NOTE: it does translate differently in our native language and can be the sort of things one might jokingly say in our culture but he kept on making these comments and wouldn't stop. My husband wasn't present for this)
3. When I held the baby, telling me to put her down as she will sleep more comfortably. To me it felt like he couldn't bear to see me holding her and was finding an excuse for me to put her down so that presumably he could pick her up- I refused. Again husband wasn't there.
4. Then 20 minutes later taking the baby off me (which I was fine with initially) but then explaining she wasn't getting the warmth she is looking for hence taking her off me presumably to provide her with the "warmth" she needs (NOTE: difficult to translate into English but essentially the warmth refers to the human comfort and body heat rather than needing an extra blanket)- I was too shocked to even say anything but she obviously started crying and I swiftly took her back. Again husband wasn't there.
5. When leaving jokingly suggesting that the baby stays with him for two weeks and my husband and I can go on holiday- we flat out said hell no

There are also wider things about him that annoy me such as constantly giving us advice that I didn't ask for, generally chatting rubbish, and his insistence on bringing his kids again when I have already indicated as politely as I could that I am not comfortable having his kids around her. His kids are completely wild and receive no discipline. At their last visit my baby nearly ended up getting seriously hurt and the entire visit was just super stressful for my husband and I trying to manage my baby as well as his kids.

So in summary suddenly seeing more of my BIL since having a baby has been exhausting. I feel like I am constantly having to push back or challenge what he says in a bid to get him to stay in his lane. I could get my husband to do more of that but to be honest if the comments and behaviour is towards me I feel its better for me to be the one to respond rather than hiding behind my husband. On top of that as I say, now I am just completely creeped out but unsure if I am overreacting and reading too much into things. I really didn't anticipate any of this in the slightest whilst pregnant largely because I had such limited interaction with him.

Anyway would love to get an outsiders point of view. My husband wasn't best pleased with his behaviour when I discussed with him and happy to support whatever I choose to do going forwards.

YABU: he is being a loving uncle and you are overeacting
YANBU: he's behaviour is creepy and you need to set some boundaries ASAP

No, No, No!

Listen to your gut and don’t let him anywhere near her. It’s not normal at all. What does your DH think of all this?

Tell your DH that he is never to leave you alone with his brother - you don't need this stress.
If BIL comes round when DH is out, don't let him in. Make up some excuses to have ready on the doorstep. If you can see who is at the door without opening it, that would be better as you then just don't answer.

Seriously creepy behaviour.

Do not ignore your instincts.

Paedophilic grooming, whatever his culture is, and if you mention it he'll start gaslighting you. Keep this man away from your daughter.

Thank you all for your messages. When I went back in hospital, I had been admitted to a mental health mother and baby unit (BIL not aware) so I do wonder whether that experience has knocked my confidence in trusting my own judgement so your feedback has really helped! I also shared some of this with friends and family previously but no one seemed particularly phased; another reason why I wondered if I had overreacted. On reflection their lack of response probably comes down to only knowing bits and pieces rather than knowing the full picture. I've tried to respond to questions/comments below:

1. No idea if he had wanted a daughter but even if that was the case I am not prepared for my baby to become his surrogate daughter. When he visited with his family, his wife said that she was jealous I had a girl as she had wanted one and so was really hoping I would have a boy...wasn't quite sure how to respond to that! He wasn't aware of baby's gender when he suggested we move closer.
2. Husband has been at home at each visit; I meant he was out of the room
3. The culture thing I do think is critical. Its really difficult to translate the comments in English without it losing some context and meaning. The comments are things people say in our culture so on the face of it not sinister but even so repeatedly saying these things is very weird. Culturally, uncles can be seen as a second father figure though in this case I feel like he wants to be the mother figure! Nevertheless neither my husband nor I strongly follow the culture and I have no need for anyone else to play the role of a parent. He is very aware of this. For instance, he previously made a comment about grandparents having a say in parenting to which I clearly stated that no one will be involved in how I raise my daughter aside from myself and my husband so I don't know why he is trying to still slot himself into this father/mother figure role. It feels to me as though I have done my "duty" in providing a child and now as the eldest brother he thinks he can take it from there but why he thinks we would go along with that is baffling. My husband has never sought his advice or guidance or treated him as some important elder in our life.
4. I have no idea why he thinks there would be any opportunity to take my daughter out without me. We don't have that type of relationship so even if everything was normal it wouldn't have happened. My husband would never agree to this either.
5. Since the last visit I told my husband I don't want him around at least for the next couple of months as I am really not comfortable with his behaviour and that if we do ever have him over again we need to set clear boundaries as he is clearly not getting my not so subtle hints to back off. I also said that if he rocks up uninvited we turn him away so as not to set a precedence that he can manipulate his way in. He supports this and is mortified and embarrassed by his brother's behaviour but I don't think he is creeped out like I am probably because it's his own brother! I think he sees it as his brother just trying to control him. I did start questioning myself if I am being excessive in my reaction but based on your responses sounds like this is the best approach.
6. My husband and BIL are from our native country. I am not. Husband has previously said (on a completely unrelated matter) that paedophilia is something that isn't even recognised in their country so I am not sure he even realises how he might come across.

Oh my god..what's wrong with him. He's one creepy weirdo

Glad you're setting boundaries, OP.

On paedophilia not even being recognised in their country ... well, he may be blind to how he comes across. Or he may be a paedophile with the absolute perfect cover.

Ironically this is the most eye opening comment for me and also makes me feel ashamed that I even questioned myself on a situation that sounds so ridiculous to someone else that they think its fake. Thank you!

I think irrespective of what his intentions are, whether to take over the role of mother or something more sinister, neither is acceptable and I will stand my ground. I am not taking that risk with my daughter! Thank you 👍🏾

In my experience, men in traditional cultures adore children. However that BIL is OTT. I wouldn't trust him

Bravo! 👏👏👏

As a mother, you are the one person on this earth who can instinctively feel it when their baby is in danger. I'm not saying that father's don't care, of course they do... but they don't walk through the world being vulnerable, so they don't tend to pick up on the same cues that mother's do. I find that most mens' instinct is to explain things away with the least harm possible, because that is their experience, they don't often feel threatened. The women on here are sensing something is off even from your text, because we're good at this!

You should stay away from your BIL as much as possible and keep your daughter away from him if you feel this instinct. Don't question yourself or explain it away. No apologies. He's got enough to be getting on with with his own kids and wife. It's very strange that he should be so interested in your child. YANBU at all. Trust your gut and if you have to cause some offence then so be it, your daughter is more important than your relationship with him.

I know I'm generalising so no offence to anyone, but this is my general experience.

I wouldn't let him anywhere near her for a few weeks. There's no need for him to see her so frequently. His behaviour is intense. You need to ask him what his issue is.

"I wouldn't let him anywhere near her for a few weeks couple of decades. There's no need for him to see her so frequently. His behaviour is intense. You need to ask him what his issue is."

FTFY

I told my husband I don't want him around at least for the next couple of months

It's great that you've stopped doubting yourself and are being assertive. But please be careful. Your husband doesn't get it, and possibly never will. After a couple of months, if BIL is allowed back in, he'll carry on right where he left off; he might be even more aggressive in trying to push you out, because he knows you don't like it and he might become even more determined.

I am confident that my husband will support me even though he might not understand the creepy side of it. His point is "my brother might say ridiculous things like that he will take her out etc but it's never going to happen so what's the big deal". He doesn't fully understand the creepy factor of repeatedly making these comments which I can understand given its his brother. I doubt he can push to get his way with me. I won't back down on this and if all else fails I happen to have brothers of my own who would be more than willing to take him on a cruise alone if I ask them to...

Also to clarify it may have sounded like multiple visits this week but it was the one. So three initial visits when she was first born (one surprise visit and two agreed) and then another visit this week. My husband was in the house for all.

I completely agree with this 100%. Women are far more likely to spot this shit for exactly the reasons you've said

he then text me on Thursday night saying that he is really missing my daughter and whilst he is doing his best to hold his emotions, he doesn't know how long he can hold them for though

I missed this before.

He's unhinged.

He needs mental health help

You two need to keep him far away from your child, indefinitely.

I wouldn't let him anywhere near her for a few weekscouple of decades

I wouldn't want my 20 yr old around him either, I'd be worried she'd end up "disappearing" and we'd eventually find out she was being kept like Joseph Fritzl's daughter or similar.

He sounds like he's planning to groom her, and he's so unhinged he's actually voicing his grooming plans.

Urgh, you're right. I was thinking "old enough to be an adult and presumably not attractive to Uncle Paedo types", but there's no guarantee - and his message you quoted just before only adds to it.

Maybe half a century, minimum. No, scratch that - never.

he then text me on Thursday night saying that he is really missing my daughter and whilst he is doing his best to hold his emotions, he doesn't know how long he can hold them for though

This is so out of the ordinary for anyone, let alone a man, re. their new niece .....whom they've only seen a few times, who's not their child, (whom they've insisted on nursing/holding excessively - at the expense of other people) ..... that it speaks of serious issues.

At the risk of sounding sexist I find it extremely unusual, in fact unique - to hear of a man being so intensely interested in and emotional about and wanting to have contact with a baby who's not his own. Usually they are anything from crap to excellent with their own kids ...and fairly hands off & minimal with family members kids, until they are older and can play games/sports/run around etc.

I've never known a man to want to hold a baby who's not his child or grand child for long either.

It's bizarre.

Ivw heard a couple of aunts say they visually missed their baby nieces or nephews but in both cases they were around them, helping with their care (invited to do so by the Mum) for periods of time and then flew home, with a sudden loss of contact. So it was understandable.

*viscally, not visually

Get a sling and wear baby whilst he is visiting. Do not pass her over under any circumstance.

Trust. Your. Gut.