Page 6 | Why can't you just dispose of evidence in the bin

someladdersandsnakes · 2023-12-26T13:30:46+00:00

I'm reading a thriller and the character done a murder and has destroyed her clothes by burning them. I feel like that would draw attention though. It wasn't the sort of crime that would be discovered immediately and the character wouldn't be suspected immediately either so I would have thought just putting them in the bin would be a good option really but nobody ever does that. Why not? Like surely once the rubbish van has come, and everything from the bins has been combined and smooshed down, there's no way any evidence would be recovered? Who's gonna dig through all that?

Cerealkiller4U · 26/12/2023 18:16

oakleaffy · 26/12/2023 18:13

Dogs {even dogs with 'poor' noses like sighthounds} have superb senses of smell - many times dogs have found remains. ''Found by a Dog walker'' is so common.

Elaine O' Hara's bones were found in a remote forest by a little dog who came back from undergrowth with small bones assumed initially to be animal bones by the owner.

I think only when a more identifiable bone was brought out by the dog did the owner and the landowner investigate further.

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A forensic teacher I follow says that 40% of dead bodies are found by dog walkers

zaazaazoo · 26/12/2023 18:17

@Dotjones Of course burning clothes draws attention. Some people have a habit of regularly lighting bonfires in their gardens, presumably this is so that nobody notices anything unusual when the time comes to burn evidence.

You think people who have regular bonfires do so in preparation for the day they want to burn evidence and not attract attention? Wtf do you live? 😂

RoseAndRose · 26/12/2023 18:17

zaazaazoo · 26/12/2023 18:06

But now you've created multiple opportunities for individual pieces to be discovered. Once discovered each could link to you. Donated with other stuff of YOURS. Put in a kerbside collection with YOUR stuff. This is a terrible idea

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Well it was your stuff - the OP said " the character done a murder and has destroyed her clothes by burning them" which I took to mean the contaminated clothes of the murderer herself, not the victim. And that there would be a few days before discovery

So being with your stuff is a really good place. Having a declutter and giving a way a bag of stuff from sundry members of your household is less suspicious than getting rid of just the clothes someone might remember you wearing that day. And the warehousing/distribution systems - especially of the kerbside cowboy collectors - would be hard to follow.

And if you can get DH to drop it off - because it's just a routine declutter after all, and with some of his manky old stuff too - so much the better.

ChihuahuasREvil · 26/12/2023 18:17

Wouldn’t you just soak it in cold salt water to get the blood out? I’ve never understood all this disposing of bloody clothing, why not just clean it? No blood to find if you’ve got it all out.

zaazaazoo · 26/12/2023 18:18

user1477391263 · 26/12/2023 15:18

I‘d hack up the body with the hacksaw we use for cutting up the Xmas tree, put it in a bunch of small separate freezer bags, put them in the freezer, then dispose of them one by one in the bin.

(Can’t believe I just wrote that)

You really would not want evidence in your freezer for that length of time

Cerealkiller4U · 26/12/2023 18:19

VisionsOfSplendour · 26/12/2023 17:51

What do you mean by the working title?

Are you talking about Corrie McKeague (apologies if that's not the correct spelling)

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That’s the one. They’ve never known if that’s what happened. That’s what I mean. That’s just what they’re working with.

ArtG · 26/12/2023 18:19

It seems to me that disappearing the corpse and other items is fraught with peril. Better off being brazen. Either : kitchen knife incident, sever the femoral artery and get as bloody as you like “stopping” the bleed. Or steal a car, run them over, torch the car.

drowninginsick · 26/12/2023 18:20

uclpp · 26/12/2023 13:54

If I’d done the crime, I’d get the bloodied clothes, put them in a Tesco bag for life and mix in some shit (dog shit from the street or a dog shit bin, not your own dog) to make it look like someone had a messy problem. Then I’d drive my fragrant bag and ditch it in a public bin miles away.

don’t cross me

This is exaclty my plan!

raindropsonatinroof · 26/12/2023 18:20

ChihuahuasREvil · 26/12/2023 18:17

Wouldn’t you just soak it in cold salt water to get the blood out? I’ve never understood all this disposing of bloody clothing, why not just clean it? No blood to find if you’ve got it all out.

Cleaning doesn't always remove all blood traces at all temps. Just googled and found this study:

It was determined that while a sufficient amount of DNA for the forensic genetic profiling can be obtained from cotton and nylon fabrics washed at 40 and 60 °C, a sufficient amount could not be obtained from the ones washed at 90 °C. And that shows even if bloodstained fabrics are washed at 60 °C, the fabrics still can be considered as physical evidence of the crime and can be associated with the scene, perpetrator and victim triangle.

Igotagoodcard · 26/12/2023 18:21

Topofthemountain · 26/12/2023 17:06

That did happen, but obviously there is then excess soil, a forensic botanist was able to prove where the dump soil came from and how long it had been there.

It was Jayden Parkinson (I watched a TV documentary about it)

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11295633.update-court-hears-jayden-buried-grave-ex-boyfriends-uncle/

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Also, with things like this where there would basically be no good explanation for being in a graveyard digging up a grave, you would have to be so sure no one would see you.

Curlygirl06 · 26/12/2023 18:32

Framilode · 26/12/2023 15:53

My brother was the QC for the prosecution many years ago where a woman had stabbed another woman because she was in love with her husband. Though the police strongly suspected the woman they could not find the murder weapon.
The police (in disguise) took over the bin collection for the area and went through the rubbish. The murder weapon was found in a neighbour's bin.

@Framilode if this is the one I'm thinking of (Wiltshire?) she was my ex husband's teacher. They lived the next town over but previously she'd lived just up the road.

anothernamechangeagainsndagain · 26/12/2023 18:35

Out in hasn't been collected for 6 weeks, hope none of my neighbours were relying on municipal rubbish collection to dispose of evidence. I'm really hoping they collected it Saturday as per the email I got

Cerealkiller4U · 26/12/2023 18:39

ChihuahuasREvil · 26/12/2023 18:17

Wouldn’t you just soak it in cold salt water to get the blood out? I’ve never understood all this disposing of bloody clothing, why not just clean it? No blood to find if you’ve got it all out.

You can’t clean it really. DNA can survive lots of things. Hence why DNA testing was so revolutionary at the time

Mossstitch · 26/12/2023 18:53

Just caught up on Xmas eastenders......the killer cleans the knife with kitchen roll and 'hides' the murder weapon under their bed😱how stupid can you get!!!
I work in a hospital I'm thinking in the clinical waste bags that get incinerated😈

RoseAndRose · 26/12/2023 19:09

Mossstitch · 26/12/2023 18:53

Just caught up on Xmas eastenders......the killer cleans the knife with kitchen roll and 'hides' the murder weapon under their bed😱how stupid can you get!!!
I work in a hospital I'm thinking in the clinical waste bags that get incinerated😈

Unless you work in a hospital, it must be quite hard to know what its waste and incineration procedures are.

I guess a visitor might strike lucky though, and get something in to the right bin for incineration. But you'd need to have a good reason to visit a hospital in the relevant period

Destruction through any workplace waste system is quite a good shout though, assuming that it can handle big items.

Leaving in a gym changing room is almost a guaranteed way for something to "walk"

Coffeemama · 26/12/2023 19:11

Don't know if anyone has already mentioned this but I've always thought you could dispose of stuff like that in sanitary bins, as they are meant to have blood etc in them, that's my plan anyway if I ever commit murder!

ChihuahuasREvil · 26/12/2023 19:16

raindropsonatinroof · 26/12/2023 18:20

Cleaning doesn't always remove all blood traces at all temps. Just googled and found this study:

It was determined that while a sufficient amount of DNA for the forensic genetic profiling can be obtained from cotton and nylon fabrics washed at 40 and 60 °C, a sufficient amount could not be obtained from the ones washed at 90 °C. And that shows even if bloodstained fabrics are washed at 60 °C, the fabrics still can be considered as physical evidence of the crime and can be associated with the scene, perpetrator and victim triangle.

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There you go, cold salt water to shift the blood, then chuck in on a 90° cycle in the machine. You really can tell that most murderers are men, I bet women are far better at getting the blood out.

RoseAndRose · 26/12/2023 19:20

Coffeemama · 26/12/2023 19:11

Don't know if anyone has already mentioned this but I've always thought you could dispose of stuff like that in sanitary bins, as they are meant to have blood etc in them, that's my plan anyway if I ever commit murder!

Depends on the size of the item.

Gloves maybe, trainers no

And I don't know about how they are emptied, and how conspicuous items of clothing would be amongst the expected menstrual/inco products

Pigsinpainauchocolat · 26/12/2023 19:31

ChihuahuasREvil · 26/12/2023 18:17

Wouldn’t you just soak it in cold salt water to get the blood out? I’ve never understood all this disposing of bloody clothing, why not just clean it? No blood to find if you’ve got it all out.

Pretty sure forensics can still find minute, microscopic even, traces of blood to test even after thorough soaking/washjng. Traces not visible to the naked eye but still there!

shockeditellyou · 26/12/2023 19:37

You need to plan far enough in advance so that all your disposal plans are part of your normal day to day activities. That way it doesn’t look suspicious if you suddenly start visiting weird places.

You also need a plan for why your victim is missing for a good few weeks to give you time to dispose of the body. Trickier if you’re trying to do it in 48hrs or so before they are reported missing.

laceydoily · 26/12/2023 19:48

You need to plan far enough in advance so that all your disposal plans are part of your normal day to day activities. That way it doesn’t look suspicious if you suddenly start visiting weird places.

Agree. The lack of planning from most murderers is shocking. If you want a job done - at least do it properly. So many killers are stupid AF

beastlyslumber · 26/12/2023 19:48

ArtG · 26/12/2023 18:19

It seems to me that disappearing the corpse and other items is fraught with peril. Better off being brazen. Either : kitchen knife incident, sever the femoral artery and get as bloody as you like “stopping” the bleed. Or steal a car, run them over, torch the car.

This is quite brilliant. Stealing this plan!

WolfFoxHare · 26/12/2023 19:53

GnomeDePlume · 26/12/2023 18:04

If your victim is someone known to you then there's a good chance you will be interviewed. Anything which looks odd will call attention. Strong smell of bleach, odd cooking smells.

Try to clean up someone else's home then you will be backwards and forwards - CCTV, ring doorbells, dash cam footage.

There was a man who decided to see if he could get away with murder. He murdered a stranger. The only people about were some dogwalkers. He was caught:

the dog walkers noticed him because he didn't have a dog. The dog walkers didn't know each other but they did know each other's dogs

ANPR cameras in the area was used to pick out his car

he left behind forensic evidence at the crime scene

This. Every contact leaves a trace and if you know your victim and have a motive, it’s fairly certain they’ll catch you unless you’re very lucky. If you want to get away with murder, you need to kill strangers from the margins of society whom you have never met before, and preferably deposit your victims’ bodies in running water. There’s a reason serial killers of sex workers and runaways and homeless people often get away with several murders before they get caught.

The best way to avoid the police finding murder weapons or clothes covered in blood etc etc is to never arouse suspicion in the first place so they don’t search your bins and wardrobes and car.

cakeorwine · 26/12/2023 19:59

If I wanted to dispose of some blunt metal instrument, I would just have to leave it outside with some other metal for a day. It would be gone very soon.

laceydoily · 26/12/2023 20:09

cakeorwine · 26/12/2023 19:59

If I wanted to dispose of some blunt metal instrument, I would just have to leave it outside with some other metal for a day. It would be gone very soon.

Someone posted on here once to wash the weapon and take it back to the store (B&Q etc) and put it back on the shelf with all the others. I thought that was quite clever