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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this insurance money isn’t ‘ours’

92 replies

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 11:57

My db dies last year with no will and no assets financial or otherwise. However the company he worked for recently contacted my parents and said that there would be an insurance pay out of some kind (no idea how much etc). Presumably when my brother signed the employment contract he has specified that my parents would be his next of kin, but would they also have asked him to state who any insurance would be paid to in the event if his death?

I ask this because db did have a child who he didn’t find out about until the child was older and he didn’t have a very close relationship with them (my db would have liked closer relationship but the child had a stable family with stepfather and my db was not In a position to offer stability due to his own issues with addiction) however since finding out about child he did pay maintenance and remain in contact with the child and mother without taking on actual ‘parenting responsibilities’ as it were.

The child is now over 18 and I believe they should be the sole beneficiary of any insurance payout, I don’t know what my db would have wanted though or is he would have specified in his employment contract. No one in my family has ever had any financial security of any kind and my parents think we should split any money between us all so everyone gets a share however small, my db would probably have to wanted to help out all his family including his child if he could but morally, and maybe legally, I believe the money is dbs child’s and not ours at all. Can anyone clarify who the insurance money actually belongs to?

OP posts:
Riverstep · 23/12/2023 16:01

as Op suggests the child was already over 18 when her DB made nomination and he knew child existed when he made nomination it probably will stand.

Agree with this. There really isn’t any evidence that db wasn’t thinking clearly when he completed the nomination form either, just opinion. It’s for the people nominated to decide how to split the money.

Whatevershallidowithmylife · 23/12/2023 16:02

Hoosemover · 23/12/2023 15:12

investments are included as moveable assets in Scotland. I presume this would include pensions as they are investment products

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It’s not an investment and it’s not a pension, it’s death in service which is not part of the estate so right if succession does not apply.

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/12/2023 16:28

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 13:44

@Willyoujustbequiet does this apply even for death benefit? Others in the thread have said that the normal inheritance rules wouldn’t apply here?

I would presume yes as the benefit will form part of estate unless its been put into a trust.

The child has this automatic right to inherit regardless of a will.

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/12/2023 16:30

GettingColdFeet · 23/12/2023 13:45

The OP was asking what to talk to her parents about because they are keen to discuss it with family and they can do whatever they want with the money after it has been paid to them (as the beneficiaries of the policy).

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But they/the trustees could certainly be open to a legal challenge as the law is quite clear.

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/12/2023 16:36

Aprilx · 23/12/2023 13:51

It is not an inheritance or part of the estate and would not be treated as such.

It is a death in service benefit and will go to whomever he named as beneficiary.

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Lump sums payable can form part of the estate. It depends on the individual circumstances and how the trustees pay out.

CharlotteStreetW1 · 23/12/2023 16:40

Rosecoffeecup · 23/12/2023 15:24

Death in service payments are usually at the discretion of the scheme trustees, they can decide to make payment to someone other than the nominated beneficiary if they deem it appropriate (e.g. if there are dependents who they think should benefit)

It's been years since I've worked in this field, but your parents may be asked to declare any spouse or children. The trustees will need to consider who is the appropriate recipient and may decide it is the child.

Agreed.

We had a case where the deceased had nominated his current partner but the trustees paid out to his young children from a previous relationship.

LG93 · 23/12/2023 16:53

England based so not sure how applicable this is to Scottish law, but I did death in service payments for work for several years. Ours (and lots of other places AFAIK!) Aren't held in a specific trust per member and were technically payable at the discretion of the employer. They never once refused to pay out, but it meant they were able to flex who the payment went to (and split it if necessary). Any nominations made by employees were considered 'expressions of wish' and weren't binding, and we would ask/investigate potential beneficiaries before paying out, although if it's been set up as an individual life insurance policy rather than a company benefit then it's possible whatever nomination he may have made will stand. If you contact the employer they should be able to give you some more information.

Sorry for your loss, OP

LaurieFairyCake · 23/12/2023 17:10

Well I agree that the child should have it as it doesn't sound like your brothers ever been able to properly financially provide

You say your brother was really young but at least 36+ when he died right ? So maybe he's not been able to financially support all the way through this young man's life?

So sorry for your loss Flowers

GoonDog · 23/12/2023 17:14

If the child's existence was withheld from your brother, then either the child/mother/both, didn't want much of a relationship with your brother, despite him wanting to and paying maintenance - then why are you pushing for them to get his money?

Your parents, are trying to help you all, and are the named beneficiaries. They don't have to give you a penny, because your brother named them and them only, however if you feel so strongly that the child should receive money, then you'll be donating your share to them, won't you?

GaudeteGaudete · 23/12/2023 17:27

I never said it was mine, my parents are if the opinion that it is ‘ours’ as a family to share however I believe that morally it should be paid to his DC.

Sorry for your loss OP.

I'm not going to try to comment on the legal side of it.

I agree with you OP that morally that money should go to his child (of any age).

Perhaps there are extenuating circumstances such as your parents needing to cover funeral expenses or being on exceptionally hard times otherwise, in which case keeping a portion of it could be reasonable? Otherwise I think they are grabby and have somewhat dubious morals in this area.

Dacadactyl · 23/12/2023 17:28

I think your parents should give your nephew some too. If I was in your parents shoes and got a death in service payment in this manner, I would be giving 100% of it to my grandchild (estranged or not), because I am well set up and I would think it was the least I could do to make up for his dad not being there for him in his early life.

Hoosemover · 23/12/2023 17:29

You probably better refer to the person who dealt with your brother’s probate.

had a family member pass recently and a form was filled to about any dependents. The pension lump sum (if they qualified) would have been paid to the estate as there was nobody nominated.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 23/12/2023 17:33

So if your parents split it with you, then you give your ’share’ to the son/daughter.

Everyone is happy… your DB’s wishes are carried out by your parents getting the insurance money…your parents are happy sharing with you, you are happy giving your share to the child, and child is happy getting the share.

*happy being relative with the passing of a loved one.

Dacadactyl · 23/12/2023 17:34

Hoosemover · 23/12/2023 17:29

You probably better refer to the person who dealt with your brother’s probate.

had a family member pass recently and a form was filled to about any dependents. The pension lump sum (if they qualified) would have been paid to the estate as there was nobody nominated.

This is the only money coming..there is no estate

Hoosemover · 23/12/2023 17:39

everyone has an estate. Whether assets or liabilities

CyberCritical · 23/12/2023 17:42

Hoosemover · 23/12/2023 17:39

everyone has an estate. Whether assets or liabilities

But probate is only necessary when there are assets above a certain value, think it's £10k from memory. Under that and it's a different process.

penjil · 23/12/2023 18:34

GaudeteGaudete · 23/12/2023 17:27

I never said it was mine, my parents are if the opinion that it is ‘ours’ as a family to share however I believe that morally it should be paid to his DC.

Sorry for your loss OP.

I'm not going to try to comment on the legal side of it.

I agree with you OP that morally that money should go to his child (of any age).

Perhaps there are extenuating circumstances such as your parents needing to cover funeral expenses or being on exceptionally hard times otherwise, in which case keeping a portion of it could be reasonable? Otherwise I think they are grabby and have somewhat dubious morals in this area.

If they are named on the Death in Service nomination form, they receive the money and there is nothing "grabby' or 'dubious'.about it.

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