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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this insurance money isn’t ‘ours’

92 replies

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 11:57

My db dies last year with no will and no assets financial or otherwise. However the company he worked for recently contacted my parents and said that there would be an insurance pay out of some kind (no idea how much etc). Presumably when my brother signed the employment contract he has specified that my parents would be his next of kin, but would they also have asked him to state who any insurance would be paid to in the event if his death?

I ask this because db did have a child who he didn’t find out about until the child was older and he didn’t have a very close relationship with them (my db would have liked closer relationship but the child had a stable family with stepfather and my db was not In a position to offer stability due to his own issues with addiction) however since finding out about child he did pay maintenance and remain in contact with the child and mother without taking on actual ‘parenting responsibilities’ as it were.

The child is now over 18 and I believe they should be the sole beneficiary of any insurance payout, I don’t know what my db would have wanted though or is he would have specified in his employment contract. No one in my family has ever had any financial security of any kind and my parents think we should split any money between us all so everyone gets a share however small, my db would probably have to wanted to help out all his family including his child if he could but morally, and maybe legally, I believe the money is dbs child’s and not ours at all. Can anyone clarify who the insurance money actually belongs to?

OP posts:
GettingColdFeet · 23/12/2023 13:32

As your parents are keen to discuss this with you/family, I would go down the route of asking if they've considered giving his son a share.

You might feel that morally it belongs to his son but you don't actually know if your brother would have shared that thought either.

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/12/2023 13:37

Actually OP if you are in Scotland a child has an automatic right to inherit whether your parents agree or not.

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/12/2023 13:39

GettingColdFeet · 23/12/2023 13:32

As your parents are keen to discuss this with you/family, I would go down the route of asking if they've considered giving his son a share.

You might feel that morally it belongs to his son but you don't actually know if your brother would have shared that thought either.

It actually doesn't matter what his intention was - there is a legal entitlement in Scotland regardless.

Parentofeanda · 23/12/2023 13:43

should definitely go to his child!

Original poster
AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 13:44

@Willyoujustbequiet does this apply even for death benefit? Others in the thread have said that the normal inheritance rules wouldn’t apply here?

OP posts:
GettingColdFeet · 23/12/2023 13:45

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/12/2023 13:39

It actually doesn't matter what his intention was - there is a legal entitlement in Scotland regardless.

Show quote history

The OP was asking what to talk to her parents about because they are keen to discuss it with family and they can do whatever they want with the money after it has been paid to them (as the beneficiaries of the policy).

Original poster
AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 13:45

@GettingColdFeet his dc would definitely get a share!

OP posts:
Aprilx · 23/12/2023 13:51

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 13:44

@Willyoujustbequiet does this apply even for death benefit? Others in the thread have said that the normal inheritance rules wouldn’t apply here?

It is not an inheritance or part of the estate and would not be treated as such.

It is a death in service benefit and will go to whomever he named as beneficiary.

Whatevershallidowithmylife · 23/12/2023 13:57

Death in service is jot classed as part of the estate so the right of succession in Scotland does not apply. Its up to your parents what they do with it. I would give his child at least half.

CyberCritical · 23/12/2023 14:15

It could actually be a reasonably large amount of money. Mine is 4 times my annual salary and I have to re-affirm yearly who I want to be the beneficiary, I can name several and designate what percentage each will get. So I have my husband getting 75% and my daughter 25% which would go into trust till she's 18.

ActDottie · 23/12/2023 14:15

cloudglazer · 23/12/2023 12:03

Is it an insurance policy or death in service benefit from his pension?

This would be my first thought too.

Either way he would’ve nominated someone. When I first started my graduate job I put my parents down but changed this once I got married.

Savoury · 23/12/2023 14:15

Sadly I know something about this from the employer side .

The death In service benefit is different to nominating a next-of-kin/secondary contact. As such it is a conscious act to nominate someone so it sounds like your parents were his choice. In the case in our work we contacted the next of kin (partner) and nominee (parent) who both agreed the nominee (parent) should get the money.

It’s desperately sad at Christmas time. I am so sorry for your loss.

Bearbookagainandagain · 23/12/2023 14:18

It is also possible your brother did not set up any beneficiaries. Until i got married I had left the field blank on my work life insurance policy because I didn't really pay attention to it (it's paid by my employer).
The insurance should be able to tell you this, if they aren't aware of the existence of your brother's DC they wouldn't contact them, but that doesn't mean they are not entitled to their share.

BIossomtoes · 23/12/2023 14:20

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/12/2023 13:37

Actually OP if you are in Scotland a child has an automatic right to inherit whether your parents agree or not.

It’s not an inheritance and it’s not within the estate.

Hoosemover · 23/12/2023 14:25

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 12:00

Scotland

children in Scotland are entitled to a third of the moveable assets. His son would have to claim.

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 23/12/2023 14:33

in scotland a pension or death in service benefit is considered a moveable asset and any children are entitled to a third as a minimum; a spouse is also entitled to a third, as he appears to be the only child he would get a third in Scotland if there were two children a sixth each etc

Dotjones · 23/12/2023 14:35

In my experience it's very easy to change the name(s) of who will benefit from a death in service payment, it's always been a case of sending a form in a sealed envelope with the most recently dated one taking precedence. So either your brother didn't want his child to benefit or he didn't really care either way.

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 23/12/2023 14:43

slight correction pensions to not always fall into legal rights of children in Scotland as you can nominate spouse to get Widow/ widowers pension, but the death in service is different to pension so you would need to check. If DB was in Scotland at time of death you may need to consult someone as a child has 20 years from date of death to claim their legal rights.

as Op suggests the child was already over 18 when her DB made nomination and he knew child existed when he made nomination it probably will stand

also checking as it appears OP's DB did not have a spouse / civil partner the legal rights of children are 50%

Aprilx · 23/12/2023 14:50

Hoosemover · 23/12/2023 14:25

children in Scotland are entitled to a third of the moveable assets. His son would have to claim.

Show quote history

A death in service payment is not a moveable asset, it isn’t even an asset. It is a payout and is nothing to do with the estate.

Zanatdy · 23/12/2023 14:50

Who did the insurance pay it to? We have to nominate someone - I have my ex partner so I actually trust him over my mum to share between my 3 children equally which is my wish (eldest isn’t his). I worry my mum would give it to my eldest only given my younger kids have their dad and he will set them up financially. I plan to even it up a bit by letting my eldest keep my share of my mums house as he lives there with his nanna so I definitely want my death in service to go to my 3 kids equally.

Sorry for your loss. I’d give some to the child, why can’t he be in the share of parents / siblings - eg 4 people 1/4 each?

Hoosemover · 23/12/2023 15:12

Aprilx · 23/12/2023 14:50

A death in service payment is not a moveable asset, it isn’t even an asset. It is a payout and is nothing to do with the estate.

Show quote history

investments are included as moveable assets in Scotland. I presume this would include pensions as they are investment products

JamieKnows · 23/12/2023 15:23

Well whatever your parents decide to do with their money (and it is theirs, not yours or his DCs or anyone else's), if you get a share you'll be handing it straight to your nephew so at least he'll get double

Rosecoffeecup · 23/12/2023 15:24

Death in service payments are usually at the discretion of the scheme trustees, they can decide to make payment to someone other than the nominated beneficiary if they deem it appropriate (e.g. if there are dependents who they think should benefit)

It's been years since I've worked in this field, but your parents may be asked to declare any spouse or children. The trustees will need to consider who is the appropriate recipient and may decide it is the child.

Treeinthesky · 23/12/2023 15:50

My work insurance is 3 x my salary. I've stated my mum for mine. I have 2 kids a house and an ex husband. My life insurance goes to ex and kids I haven't changed it. I want to ensure security for my kids so they can still live here if owt happened to me. The one for my mum well I wasn't gonna list my ex my kids are to young and I didn't wanna list my bf as we aren't married. Ya brother said ya parents therefore it's their money not yours. In all honesty your share that your parents send you could be sent to your nephew

Cherrysoup · 23/12/2023 15:56

It goes to whomever he nominated at the time. If he presumably isn’t on the dc’s birth certificate, no relationship can be proven unless the dc finds out (are you in contact?) and somehow does a dna test (how?) to prove the connection then goes to court although you said your parents would share?