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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this insurance money isn’t ‘ours’

92 replies

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 11:57

My db dies last year with no will and no assets financial or otherwise. However the company he worked for recently contacted my parents and said that there would be an insurance pay out of some kind (no idea how much etc). Presumably when my brother signed the employment contract he has specified that my parents would be his next of kin, but would they also have asked him to state who any insurance would be paid to in the event if his death?

I ask this because db did have a child who he didn’t find out about until the child was older and he didn’t have a very close relationship with them (my db would have liked closer relationship but the child had a stable family with stepfather and my db was not In a position to offer stability due to his own issues with addiction) however since finding out about child he did pay maintenance and remain in contact with the child and mother without taking on actual ‘parenting responsibilities’ as it were.

The child is now over 18 and I believe they should be the sole beneficiary of any insurance payout, I don’t know what my db would have wanted though or is he would have specified in his employment contract. No one in my family has ever had any financial security of any kind and my parents think we should split any money between us all so everyone gets a share however small, my db would probably have to wanted to help out all his family including his child if he could but morally, and maybe legally, I believe the money is dbs child’s and not ours at all. Can anyone clarify who the insurance money actually belongs to?

OP posts:

Icelandic9 · 23/12/2023 12:27

Also, I'm sorry for your loss 💐

Reugny · 23/12/2023 12:28

cloudglazer · 23/12/2023 12:22

I am less clear on insurance policies, but if it's a death in service benefit from his pension, it will go to the people your brother specified on his expression of will form. He would have chosen that, it's nothing to do with next of kin and can't be changed. I suspect it is, as it was his employer who rang your parents.
I am sorry for your loss.

Actually the trustees can choose who it goes to. However normally they follow the instructions on your expression of wishes form.

As the child is over 18 and as it doesn't sound like they are a dependent there is no reason why the child should be favoured over the deceased parents. However this is English rules.

kweeble · 23/12/2023 12:28

He probably nominated them as beneficiaries- they are entitled to it and no doubt have had expenses due to the funeral. I would leave it up to them to decide what to do.

Boysnme · 23/12/2023 12:30

I had to state who I wanted my death in service to go to and could split it however I saw fit.

regardless as to what his family situation is now, the company will only pay out to the named person. If you want it to go to his child your parents would need to agree and give it themselves ( just remember then that the money could be subject to inheritance tax for the child if the parents die within 7 years depending on the value)

LakeTiticaca · 23/12/2023 12:33

He's nominated your parents so they will get the money

itsmyp4rty · 23/12/2023 12:36

The money belongs to whoever your brother nominated, which must be your parents as they wouldn't just pay the money out to anyone. I think it's wrong to try to speculate about whether he would have changed that if he'd known he was going to die - because you are only speculating.

I think it's entirely up to your parents what they do with the money and if they ask your advice you should tell then that it's their money and so it's entirely up to them.

BuffaloCauliflower · 23/12/2023 12:42

How long did he work there? If he was working there before he knew about his child it’s possible he just put parents as next of kin on the forms when he joined the company, and never thought about it to change it

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 23/12/2023 12:44

if it is your parents money which it appears it is and they want to share it equally or perhaps unequally then just suggest that his son is one of those that get a share, if they say no then you could give him your share but you can't make anyone feel guilty for taking what your parents offer

TiaraBoo · 23/12/2023 12:45

@AutumnLeaves333
at my company, we nominate our beneficiaries for our death in service benefit BUT I think the company are allowed to overrule. So if you get the chance to ask them, do ask as they may then overrule and provide to his child. May not be so critical in this case but at least if they know about his child they potentially could be considered.
obviously we don’t know the exact terms but still a chance.

Bagpuss2022 · 23/12/2023 12:46

My uncle died and his death in service payment was split between two of his sisters and nothing for his son (they were estranged) his house went to son

PMAalltheway · 23/12/2023 12:50

My DF (Father) passed away and had no estate. Months later I was contacted about his death in service payment. He had named myself, DB and his Mum. His Mum passed away before I was contacted so I had to submit her death certificate to them and it was then split 2 ways between me and DB. As I understand it, in England at least, the named beneficiaries would get the money and it's completely separate to the estate/will. Morally though, I think at least some of it should go to his DC.

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 23/12/2023 12:50

if the child was under 18 I think trusteees would consider overruling nomination as he could be viewed as a dependant but as he is over 18 it would be unlikely they would overrule original beneficaries ( the more over 18 he is the less likely they are to change itas someone 19 may still be in FTE someone 25 unlikely to be). Generally speaking overruling deceased wishes is rare.

Boredatthemoment · 23/12/2023 12:54

My XH died in Scotland and worked for an employer in Scotland. There were no assets and only the insurance from his employer.
It was split between his parents and our DC. DC did not get the full amount. He had not nominated DC as he was estranged.

JobMatch3000 · 23/12/2023 12:54

As PP, at the time he submitted his Death in Service nomination form (a type of life assurance) he would have specified who he wanted the payout to go to. He nominated your parents. The money will go to them.

Minglemangle007 · 23/12/2023 13:01

Also, was his child adopted by his stepfather as I believe that would nullify him being your brothers NOK, so wouldn't go to him anyway if he hadn't been a specified beneficiary.

CuriousGeorge80 · 23/12/2023 13:04

If it’s a death in service scheme then, in England, he could have completed an Expression of Wish form setting out who he wanted it to go to. However, this is not binding on the trustees of the scheme, who are required to review possible beneficiaries and decide how best to proceed. They will look at (a) when your DB completed the form, if it was a long time ago they are more likely to consider other circumstances when deciding how to allocate if, and (b) need / fairness. It would be perfectly likely that they would allocate a percentage to his son, especially as he had been supporting him.

I was formally a trustee in a complicated case where we decided to override the Expression of Wish form to also leave a % to the dead man’s son, who his then partner had no idea existed. He had actually signed the form years earlier for his then wife, but they had since divorced. It was all very complicated to resolve, as we had to look at the ex wife, current partner, son (and the brother also had a go at claiming it too).

Anyway, may be different in Scotland, but this is the position in England for death in service payments.

Sorry for your loss OP.

Aprilx · 23/12/2023 13:04

It is a death in service payment. Your brother would absolutely have specified who the payment should be made to. If he put your parents down then it will be paid to them, so it doesn’t sound like it is “yours” no. What they do with it is then up to them.

weekfour · 23/12/2023 13:06

There are different ways for these type of schemes to be set up. I've worked for companies in the past where it's set up to pay to the trustees (directors of company) who then make the decision how the funds should be distributed. Employees were asked to specify where the funds should go but the form wasn't mandatory and not always kept up to date. Sometimes they weren't filled in and weren't chased up.

It could be that the form was never completed. If the company was unaware of the child they'd automatically go to your parents. I think the parents would then have a moral responsibility to pass the money on to your brother's child.

CuriousGeorge80 · 23/12/2023 13:06

Also agree with PP that it may depend on age of son. More likely the younger they are, especially is still in full time educations

Original poster

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 13:10

@Aprilx I never said it was mine, my parents are if the opinion that it is ‘ours’ as a family to share however I believe that morally it should be paid to his DC.

OP posts:

ltappleby · 23/12/2023 13:14

Given your parents views I would suggest splitting the money across the family, including your DB’s child. It doesn’t sound likely that they will agree to the child getting it all. You could still pass your share on to the child

MargotBamborough · 23/12/2023 13:18

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 12:23

@IAmAnIdiot123 by db had absolutely no estate so no one inherited anything, this is the only money.

If this is the only money then I agree it would be morally right to give some to his son since there will be no more maintenance payments.

You could make this point to your parents. But it is ultimately their decision to make.

Original poster

AutumnLeaves333 · 23/12/2023 13:19

my dbs child is over the age of 18 and my db knew about him before he is started working for this company, in fact his child would already have been over 18 when he started working for this company.

My reservations are that my db would likely not have given much thought to who he specified the payment should go to as he was very young, from knowing him and our family dynamic I believe he might have specified my parents as he believed they would make the decision for him rather than because he wanted them to have all the money. I cannot imagine they would decide to keep the money themselves although I respect that legally they could do that if they wished. They expect an input from us as his siblings as to how the money is shared which is why I feel entitled to question the morality of any decision we make regarding his dc.

OP posts:

MargotBamborough · 23/12/2023 13:22

Oh wait, the child is an adult so there is no more maintenance anyway.

I guess if your parents decided to share the money out among the family it would be nice for his son to be included.

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/12/2023 13:32

Yanbu

His child is his next of kin and morally entitled. I believe he can challenge it legally.

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