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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are you seeing much poverty and despair where you are at the minute?

204 replies

whereisitgoing · 22/12/2023 21:26

I'm not sure if I can face doing my volunteering shift this weekend at a street soup kitchen (still have time to cancel) as not sure I can be tough enough and keep my mask in place. It is the first Christmas since my mum died and I'm crumbling.

Usually I love my volunteer shift, it's really brutal though to see the dire straits people are in. So much despair. The numbers needing help have exploded since covid and this winter are considerably higher again. At the moment I just don't think I can do it, everything seems quite bleak.

Sometimes people are at the end of their tether when they get to us and they are understandably and justifiably stressed and irritated - normally I can handle this without any bother, but not sure I can do it this weekend.

The kitchen will have loads of volunteers so it won't matter if I'm not there anyway. But it has me wondering, are you seeing more people needing help where you are this winter? Is there more palpable despair and anger out there, or am I just projecting my own shit year?

OP posts:
Annon00 · 23/12/2023 09:59

TheYearOfSmallThings · 23/12/2023 08:56

I know that times are difficult for some, but I also think that the level of appeals being made sometimes exceeds the true level of need.

I work in an NHS hospital and every year, right up close to Christmas, we get certain local charities wanting to give toys for patients in paediatric wards. These children are not in need of toys - they have loving families and are swamped with toys, but the charities have been urging people to buy a gift for a Child In Need, Who May Only Get One Present This Year. And people like that idea so they buy toys, and children who have dozens of presents get an extra random gift that they hardly notice, and I always hope the person donating had money to spare, because the need they thought they were meeting didn't really exist.

If you want to give toys, give to a local women’s refuge or a home office hotel (ideally in November). Often families have had to leave everything and would value toys.

BitOutOfPractice · 23/12/2023 10:09

Street homelessness is one very visible part of the crisis in poverty. But most of it is hidden, behind closed doors where children going hungry and absolute poverty goes on unseen by those of us fortunate enough not to be experiencing it.

i find it staggering to hear how some people seem to equate “M&S is packed” with an absence of poverty. Surely you have enough imagination to realise that poverty and wealth can and do Co-exist in any town or city.

Sorrynotsore · 23/12/2023 10:24

Yes. I work in an non profit with lots of community work in the city centre. We have homeless people come in regularly and one sleep in our carpark. Plus loads of people just struggling. I do think people will see lots of Christmas shopping and think it's all fine. But it's definitely not.

inamarina · 23/12/2023 10:25

BitOutOfPractice · 23/12/2023 10:09

Street homelessness is one very visible part of the crisis in poverty. But most of it is hidden, behind closed doors where children going hungry and absolute poverty goes on unseen by those of us fortunate enough not to be experiencing it.

i find it staggering to hear how some people seem to equate “M&S is packed” with an absence of poverty. Surely you have enough imagination to realise that poverty and wealth can and do Co-exist in any town or city.

Who’s equating a packed M&S with absence of poverty though? People are just describing what they’re seeing where they live. That’s what the OP asked.
I doubt anyone thinks ‘My local M&S is packed, hence poverty doesn’t exist in this country’.

cakeorwine · 23/12/2023 10:29

I wonder what people aren't seeing. They see people with flash cars, shopping etc. The people with money.

But do you see poverty - or is it hidden behind doors. People who don't go out to go shopping, who don't have the flash cars, who are struggling with debt.

cakeorwine · 23/12/2023 10:30

BitOutOfPractice · 23/12/2023 10:09

Street homelessness is one very visible part of the crisis in poverty. But most of it is hidden, behind closed doors where children going hungry and absolute poverty goes on unseen by those of us fortunate enough not to be experiencing it.

i find it staggering to hear how some people seem to equate “M&S is packed” with an absence of poverty. Surely you have enough imagination to realise that poverty and wealth can and do Co-exist in any town or city.

Absolutely. People talking about seeing packed shops, new cars etc.

It's hidden away.

cakeorwine · 23/12/2023 10:33

inamarina · 23/12/2023 10:25

Who’s equating a packed M&S with absence of poverty though? People are just describing what they’re seeing where they live. That’s what the OP asked.
I doubt anyone thinks ‘My local M&S is packed, hence poverty doesn’t exist in this country’.

Show quote history

There are lots of posts talking about packed restaurants, shops etc.

LePanthere · 23/12/2023 10:35

FNQ here, we just had a cyclone and massive flooding. Hundreds of families homeless…. It has revealed just how many people skipping out on home insurance, switching to minimal car insurance…. Sometimes the cost of living crisis isn’t apparent in the day to day but something like this has demonstrated just how many people are making cuts to what many would consider essential costs to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads.

Lochness1975 · 23/12/2023 10:38

As they say you need to put your oxygen mask on first before helping others.

Wisenotboring · 23/12/2023 10:50

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 22/12/2023 22:45

There are a lot of very obtuse posts on this thread tbh.

Just because restaurants are full and the people you know are going on holidays doesn't mean that there aren't also increasing numbers of homeless people. The homelessness stats make the scale of the problem very clear.

The question was asking what are people seeing. It stands to reason that people will see different things depending on where they live. It doesn't deny a COL crisis or increasing homelessness. Round me I don't see much of a struggle but I think my life is a bit of a bubble. We do donate to the food bank which is in ever increasing need. The issues are there, but can be very invisible depending on your life circumstances, job and income.
I think what this thread does show is that wealth inequality is increasing. It makes me so angry and frustrated but beyond considering how I vote and charitable giving, I feel quite powerless to effect any change.

Heatherbell1978 · 23/12/2023 10:56

I don't see any evidence BUT that is entirely down to the job I do, the place I live and the friends I have. I live in a bubble and I know that. It has made me more aware of how crass very obvious displays of wealth can be. Maybe it's an age thing too I don't know but I cringe when I see the huge Range Rovers, the Botox and the designer handbags on show.

MrsSchrute · 23/12/2023 11:14

equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk

The problem, as outlined on this thread, is the huge and increasing social inequality in the UK. We are one of the most unequal countries in Europe.

So it is totally possible to live in a little comfy bubble and not notice the total despair all around, because it doesn't touch you - yet.

I totally echo the earlier poster who talked about seeing the knock on effects of poverty. Drug dealing, assaults, robbery etc are slowly slipping into the more affluent areas of the city I live in.

Social inequality is a bad thing for all of us, and something that we all need to be aware of and looking to do our part to end.

To answer your question OP, don't go to your shift. This is a marathon, not a sprint, you need to be fresh for the next bit!

BitOutOfPractice · 23/12/2023 12:05

inamarina · 23/12/2023 10:25

Who’s equating a packed M&S with absence of poverty though? People are just describing what they’re seeing where they live. That’s what the OP asked.
I doubt anyone thinks ‘My local M&S is packed, hence poverty doesn’t exist in this country’.

Show quote history

Lots of people are equating full M&S with there being no struggle in their town. On this thread alone.

GettingStuffed · 23/12/2023 12:19

I live in an affluent dormitory town and, like other posters, we don't see any COL issues but within the last 2 weeks I've been into 2 larger towns and there were obvious signs of people living on the streets. It shows how the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer.

TiredArse · 23/12/2023 12:22

Street homelessness is definitely on the rise here. This year, for the first time in as long as I can recall, there aren’t enough hostel beds and people are being turned away.

easylikeasundaymorn · 23/12/2023 12:24

BitOutOfPractice · 23/12/2023 12:05

Lots of people are equating full M&S with there being no struggle in their town. On this thread alone.

Show quote history

Christ. Once more. Posters have not said that because they have a full M&S they don't believe there is poverty. They are saying that they haven't seen obvious signs of it. Which is exactly the question the OP asked.

I don't understand why people come on a thread to berate other posters for not giving the answer they think they should
If we're only allowed to reply with the party-approved line what's the point of a discussion forum?

roarrfeckingroar · 23/12/2023 13:25

It depends entirely where you live. Affluent areas are mostly business as usual. Poor areas will show more obvious signs of poverty. Within my circle everyone is absolutely fine. That has no bearing on how people are getting on elsewhere.

inamarina · 23/12/2023 13:49

MaryQueenofKnots · 23/12/2023 09:23

I live in the inner city and there are clear signs of the knock on effects of poverty. More crime, more drugs, more altercations. People are stressed. I also think the gap between the have's and have not's is much bigger now. Where I live (council estate) our nearest high street is all sourdough bakeries, organic fruit and veg shops, IPA craft beer pubs. It's a strange mixture of down from Londoners finding their salaries stretching much further than before and people buying their kids breakfast in the local off licence where the owner gives them 'credit' to pay it back on pay day.

We didn't have this before. We had high streets with Greggs, bookies, Wetherspoons, charity shops, halal butchers, locksmiths. Shops that were useful and accessible for all. Now we have a high street where 1/2 of the residents are unable to use the majority of the shops due to cost. This breeds resentment.

I help with a local community group and we have a huge demographic of people who have arrived in Britain from North Africa or Somalia in the last five years. They are very good at living extremely frugally. They cook fresh. Their kids have hand me downs.

The white British and Caribbean families who live in my area seem to be doing worse in the current climate. There's a lot of people getting store cards for Very etc and selling the highly inflated stuff they buy on the selling sites for £20. This is money they can use for food or other essentials. It's terrible economics though £50 trainers, sell for £20, accrue interest so the original trainers end up costing £100!
There's also a real lack of shops selling reasonable fresh food. We have a local shop which sells one onion for a pound, £4 for a punnet of blueberries etc. We don't have a lidl nearby and most don't drive.
This leads to a bad diet consisting of stuff you can buy in a local off licence. Sausage rolls, pizza, rustlers, ham, instant noodles.

Honestly it's shit. Bring back the Sure Start centres. Stop clamping down on UC. Ask these people what would make their lives better. If you're in temporary accommodation, you can't sleep because there's constant people coming in and out of the drug dealers house next door, there's constant barking from protection dogs, your son is bouncing off the walls because he's been on the autism waiting list for three years, there's no support for his challenging behaviour and you can't buy any fresh food, you are in no position to find work. Make people's day to day life more comfortable and they are much more likely to find work or make a contribution to society.

We didn't have this before. We had high streets with Greggs, bookies, Wetherspoons, charity shops, halal butchers, locksmiths. Shops that were useful and accessible for all.

Did businesses like Greggs and charity shops all close down in your town? If only half of the local population can afford the more expensive shops, surely there must be enough demand for the more affordable ones, so I wonder why they’re closing down.
Tbh, I don’t think that all shops need to be necessary accessible for all, as long as there are affordable alternatives available locally.

Sourdough bakeries and craft beer pubs also generate tax revenue (if they’re genuine and profitable businesses), so they’re useful in a different way. Plus, some people want to buy sourdough, so why not sell it to them?
It’s just important to have alternatives.

What I think would be helpful and what I’ve seen in Europe is supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl having inner city stores, so people wouldn’t need to drive out to them and could still buy inexpensive fresh ingredients.

MrsKeats · 23/12/2023 13:54

Not here.
Every restaurant packed out.

BitOutOfPractice · 23/12/2023 14:26

Christ yourself @easylikeasundaymorn 🙄 thats exactly what they’re saying. “Nothing in my town, no, I’ve seen nothing”.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 23/12/2023 14:32

BitOutOfPractice · 23/12/2023 14:26

Christ yourself @easylikeasundaymorn 🙄 thats exactly what they’re saying. “Nothing in my town, no, I’ve seen nothing”.

Why can’t posters say they aren’t seeing anything in their town?

I can’t either in my affluent closest town, it doesn’t mean I haven’t seen the news, or read articles, or mn or other forums to know poverty is very real. Not only in the uk either, people seem to happily overlook posts from people in other countries reporting similar poverty and problems.

Daphnis156 · 23/12/2023 14:39

I don't see much evidence of hardship in my area, but people can keep these things hidden.
Buying food and paying extortionate prices for gas and electricity cause hardship which may not be apparent as you pass people in the street.

But Sunak must keep his helicopter at our expense....

LuluBlakey1 · 23/12/2023 14:42

I was in Newcastle for 8.15am a couple of weeks ago and way too early for my appointment. I got off the Metro at the first stop in the city centre and walked 3 stops to the other end of the city centre to where my appointment was. The number of homeless people was shocking. Many were still in doorways - covered in filthy quilts, sleeping bags, plastic or cardboard. A number were already up and begging, a number had grouped together and were having a hot drink and a cigarette. They looked absolutely freezing and desperate.

I remember when I was about 16-18 in the mid 1990s, Newcastle had big numbers of homeless people sleeping outside but the Labour government came into power and almost stopped it. It has risen terribly. Even in the last year it has risen significantly. I was in Newcastle early twice a week 18 months ago and the numbers were bigger than 2010 but nothing like what they are now. The large number of women really struck me and the age of the people - from young (20 ish) to people I would say were late 60s.

They were almost all white (not unusual to see a high majority of white people in Newcastle but there was only 1 who looked not white and I would say I saw 70 +)

inamarina · 23/12/2023 14:43

BitOutOfPractice · 23/12/2023 14:26

Christ yourself @easylikeasundaymorn 🙄 thats exactly what they’re saying. “Nothing in my town, no, I’ve seen nothing”.

But that’s just their answer to OP’s question ‘Are you seeing much poverty where you are?’
The question is not: ‘Do you believe there is poverty in the UK?’ or ‘Do you think the average customer in your local M&S is representative for the majority of the UK population?’

EasternStandard · 23/12/2023 14:46

inamarina · 23/12/2023 14:43

But that’s just their answer to OP’s question ‘Are you seeing much poverty where you are?’
The question is not: ‘Do you believe there is poverty in the UK?’ or ‘Do you think the average customer in your local M&S is representative for the majority of the UK population?’

Show quote history

Exactly it was about what people are seeing

So pp are just answering the question