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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think some romance scam victims are simply stupid?

531 replies

TheAverageJoanne · 19/12/2023 10:38

At home today and have the TV on with For Love or Money about romance fraud. One victim is an international business development manager but gave £113000 to scammers, persuading her mother and sister to part with their savings

How far the love of Christ would you trust someone with a responsible job when they do this sort of thing and judgement flies out of the window?

I get there are people who are lonely and vulnerable but this one took me by total surprise. How could she have been so stupid? She received an email while waiting for him at the airport, showed it to airport staff who confirmed it was fake but still sent another £30000 to prevent airport staff at the other side from killing him. Jesus Christ.

OP posts:
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flapjackfairy · 19/12/2023 12:39

Housebuyer37 · 19/12/2023 10:53

I know. I read about one woman who believed she was in an online relationship with Jason Statham and ended up giving him tens of thousands of pounds.

For a start why would Jason Statham need your money? And also not to be mean but what does Jason Statham need with a middle aged woman from Stoke when he has his supermodel girlfriend 🤔

Well I am a middle aged woman from Stoke and I think Jason would be lucky to have me ! 😁

NonPlayerCharacter · 19/12/2023 12:43

ginasevern · 19/12/2023 12:36

@HolyZarquonsSingingSeals

"What fascinates me is how do people so stupid get to have so much money in the first place?"

This did make me laugh. I must admit when you hear they've drawn out £100,000 and then 3 weeks later another £50,000 followed by £30,000 and so on. Most of them don't seem to have had stellar jobs or anything. Who's got that sort of money?

Frequently, not the marks. That's why they go bankrupt.

It's also why it's stupid when people, looking to disparage them further, call them gold diggers when they're women. What kind of half-competent gold digger gives money to her putative sugar daddy? In fact, people are often pressured to cough up in order to prove that they're not gold diggers.

Yalta · 19/12/2023 12:46

*CoatOfArms · Today 11:02

Very very gullible and probably a bit desperate. Doesn't speak volumes as their ability as an "international business development manager" that they send £130k to some bloke they've never met who is supposedly in the Ukraine building something or other.

The presenters always say things like "it could happen to anyone"*

It only happens if you have some high opinion of yourself, time on your hands and cash or credit to throw around

If you are realistic about your looks with no money or time to take on other peoples problems then the chances are you won’t get scammed

Who on earth has the time to read about how you have won a lottery you never entered or some random wants to chat on FB.

Dominicains · 19/12/2023 12:47

This is so interesting - I had seen the programme a few years ago when it was first on and never imagined I would know anyone who would fall for one of these scams. In lockdown, a recently separated female friend of mine confided in me on a (socially distanced, countryside!) walk that an American army chap had contacted her via her business FB page and she was falling for him. It took weeks and weeks to convince her that it was a scam. Even when I did the reverse image search, she made out that the other accounts were the fakes (they were all fakes, there was no way to tell which was the original person) and her man was the real thing. Interestingly, even in real life, she was very easily manipulated- her ex husband had convinced her that their family home was his and his alone as he had been the sole earner for most of their marriage. He managed to get her to move to Australia and isolate her from her support networks. So she definitely gives off a vibe of emotional vulnerability. She is a very average person (I don’t mean that in any way disrespectfully - she’s not got any learning disabilities, she held down a job before she met her ex, has HND level qualifications, now runs a small domestic business, manages to look after herself and two kids, nothing to say she is susceptible on paper) but something in her gives off the sense to people who are exploitative that she is an easy mark. I can’t tell you what it is, but I picked up on it not long after I met her. So if the scammers cast out enough nets, people like my friend will fall for it due to their own unique brain chemistry not having that self-protective layer.

Whataretheodds · 19/12/2023 12:47

Think about all the people who post on here putting up with all sorts of shit for the prospect of some love and affection. It's the same thing really.

SpringMeadows · 19/12/2023 12:51

I don’t think anyone has mentioned on here that anyone can be “hooked” into love and it is usually a while before any money is asked for, by which time the person is in love and has started to trust whatever the partner is saying.

even if you've never met them in person???

wisestbee23 · 19/12/2023 12:52

I am often contacted by these fake accounts on Instagram - all claiming to be on peace-keeping missions in Syria. One took on the identity of an actual, high-profile, American military officer that my Husband had met and worked with IRL. I had great fun toying with this account before dropping the bombshell that I knew it was fake - with proof!

readymealeater · 19/12/2023 12:53

I am a middle aged woman who doesn't turn heads in my usual UK streets.

If it started happened with men half my age just because I happened to be abroad, well I'd think something was up!

CaramelMac · 19/12/2023 12:55

Dominicains · 19/12/2023 12:47

This is so interesting - I had seen the programme a few years ago when it was first on and never imagined I would know anyone who would fall for one of these scams. In lockdown, a recently separated female friend of mine confided in me on a (socially distanced, countryside!) walk that an American army chap had contacted her via her business FB page and she was falling for him. It took weeks and weeks to convince her that it was a scam. Even when I did the reverse image search, she made out that the other accounts were the fakes (they were all fakes, there was no way to tell which was the original person) and her man was the real thing. Interestingly, even in real life, she was very easily manipulated- her ex husband had convinced her that their family home was his and his alone as he had been the sole earner for most of their marriage. He managed to get her to move to Australia and isolate her from her support networks. So she definitely gives off a vibe of emotional vulnerability. She is a very average person (I don’t mean that in any way disrespectfully - she’s not got any learning disabilities, she held down a job before she met her ex, has HND level qualifications, now runs a small domestic business, manages to look after herself and two kids, nothing to say she is susceptible on paper) but something in her gives off the sense to people who are exploitative that she is an easy mark. I can’t tell you what it is, but I picked up on it not long after I met her. So if the scammers cast out enough nets, people like my friend will fall for it due to their own unique brain chemistry not having that self-protective layer.

There is definitely a certain type of person who can be easily manipulated, my parents had some friends when I was younger who were always on to some get rich quick scheme and were always on the bones of their arse.

I read on here about the “shark cage theory” and it makes so much sense.

Jf20 · 19/12/2023 12:56

MikeRafone · 19/12/2023 12:11

They don't, they cast their net far and wide. Ive had scammers come on to me, but there were to many inaccuracies, this was after about 6 texts I was suspicious - so asked a couple of other questions which confirmed it was a scammer. blocked and move on

Show quote history

Absolutely . It’s a numbers game. When on holiday, I’ve had young local men come up to me, tell me I’m beautiful etc.ask to meet me for a drink. If I was vulnerable, lonely, desperate, it would be very easy to say yes.

To believe that they were actually interested in me. That maybe they did think I was beautiful. To go and believe the love bombing. To get sucked in. To go along with the demands, to keep the love bombing coming, to not want to believe you’re that person, the one they make tv programs about. The one who fell for the scam. That he didn’t think you were beautiful. He doesn’t love you. It was all for money, a visa, with easy sex thrown in.

the reality is harsh. That he didn’t think that, just you were a vain lonely older woman who was desperate. A mark.

Fortunately I’m happily married, so in girls trips it’s easy for me to raise an eye brow, say no and turn away. But I can see if I was very lonely, no one interested, that maybe just maybe someone telling me I am beautiful, that I am special, that they’d do anything to be with me. Maybe I’d want to believe that they really thought that.

you’d hope they stopped believing that when it came to handing the cash over, but by then they are in too deep and desperately want it. Convinced themselves it is real love. And the bank account opens.

Zoreos · 19/12/2023 12:57

Who are the 7% of people who think YABU? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Kannet111 · 19/12/2023 12:58

CoatOfArms · 19/12/2023 11:02

Very very gullible and probably a bit desperate. Doesn't speak volumes as their ability as an "international business development manager" that they send £130k to some bloke they've never met who is supposedly in the Ukraine building something or other.

The presenters always say things like "it could happen to anyone" but it really couldn't. I have a business Instagram account and regularly get messages from attractive looking men who are always American, Canadian or Australian but working in Syria/Iraq for the UN or as a medic. So clearly fake. Delete and block. Scammers like this are not sophisticated and if these women even took one second to google the story they would hit upon thousands of other widowed American UN medics stuck in Iraq who just need $2000 for a passport or medical bills...

Oh I would have to reply to a few just to waste their time. Would be fun

2mummies1baby · 19/12/2023 12:59

Of course they are, but being stupid isn't a crime and makes people very vulnerable- they still deserve to be protected.

Ortila · 19/12/2023 13:02

I dunno. I guess everyone has their weaknesses. The kind of weaknesses that scammers use to set their marks on targets though, these are exactly the kind of weaknesses that we all need to be a bit more mindful of in general. Isolation, physical illness, mental illness, learning disabilities, imperfect socialisation - they're all slow burn things that aren't too difficult to accommodate in society : I mean, we aren't talking about people who are dangerous or who negatively impact others, mostly it's a question of having a bit more patience and giving people a bit more time and the benefit of the doubt. Possibly if we were all more set up to do that then they wouldn't be so vulnerable to this particular kind of crime.

Jf20 · 19/12/2023 13:04

Kannet111 · 19/12/2023 12:58

Oh I would have to reply to a few just to waste their time. Would be fun

Show quote history

Honestly you don’t want to engage. I get it a lot on insta, handsome looking men , often in the military in the us it seems, following me, wanting to start a conversation.i just block.

i got one on Facebook the other day, I checked out his profile before I declined , he had so many friends, at least a couple of hundred. And not one was male. Not one. Every single friend was a woman.

what stunned me, is these women obviously accepted the friend request. And I’d bet good money, real good money, not one of them knew who this man was.

BrownTableMat · 19/12/2023 13:05

Zoreos · 19/12/2023 12:57

Who are the 7% of people who think YABU? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m one of those who voted YABU. I don’t think it’s fair to say victims are stupid, for reasons others have said on here (we don’t call victims of other types of abusive or exploitative relationships “stupid”:
we understand that it’s a complex series of factors that make people vulnerable and also that it’s the fault of the abuser not the victim).

But also, it was said for a long time that people who get caught up in cults are stupid. However, research has shown that people who do are often more intelligent than normal, not less, and it’s certain emotional vulnerabilities plus very clever grooming from the cult that draws them in. The parallels with romance grooming/scams seems obvious to me.

Ortila · 19/12/2023 13:08

God no don't engage.

The people who send these messages are trafficked into "working" (more akin to slavery or at least indenture) for really dodgy international criminal networks with very very bad people in charge. You can't do anything about it and best to steer well clear.

VickyEadieofThigh · 19/12/2023 13:09

MammaTo · 19/12/2023 11:29

I worked in a branch of a high street bank for many years and the stories people would come in with were jaw dropping.
We’d have to tell them it’s a romance scam and it’s not real etc, we’d tell them we have to leave notes on their accounts to say we’ve told them the dangers and they’re willingly sending them the money - but nope people still insisted on sending it to strangers from the internet.

Indeed. I've seen a number of TV programmes in which people's banks tried to intervene, brought in the police, etc. And then I've been astonished that they expect the bank to refund the money they send despite the bank's attempts.

Jf20 · 19/12/2023 13:09

BrownTableMat · 19/12/2023 13:05

I’m one of those who voted YABU. I don’t think it’s fair to say victims are stupid, for reasons others have said on here (we don’t call victims of other types of abusive or exploitative relationships “stupid”:
we understand that it’s a complex series of factors that make people vulnerable and also that it’s the fault of the abuser not the victim).

But also, it was said for a long time that people who get caught up in cults are stupid. However, research has shown that people who do are often more intelligent than normal, not less, and it’s certain emotional vulnerabilities plus very clever grooming from the cult that draws them in. The parallels with romance grooming/scams seems obvious to me.

Show quote history

Cults are very different, they often target the intelligent, so they can demonstrate this jewel and keep the cult going to other members. Romance scammers do not go after the intelligent. They play a numbers game and see who bites. Then keep the love bombing up. They play on vulnerability, desperation, vanity, loneliness.

Krabappel · 19/12/2023 13:09

Calling people in these situations stupid feels like punching down. A lot of times they're lonely and desperate to be loved to the point of delusion.

Yes, we know it's stupid to send money to a stranger who is probably catfishing but it does a lack of empathy to not complete why people do this

NonPlayerCharacter · 19/12/2023 13:10

Zoreos · 19/12/2023 12:57

Who are the 7% of people who think YABU? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Those of us with a more nuanced, sympathetic and, I'd say, intelligent view of how people can get manipulated.

readymealeater · 19/12/2023 13:10

VickyEadieofThigh · 19/12/2023 13:09

Indeed. I've seen a number of TV programmes in which people's banks tried to intervene, brought in the police, etc. And then I've been astonished that they expect the bank to refund the money they send despite the bank's attempts.

Show quote history

Yep and ultimately we all end up paying for it if the bank refunds them!

Crushed23 · 19/12/2023 13:12

I mean, you even see this sort of stuff on Mumsnet!

I’ll never forget the woman whose husband got drunk and slept all day all through their all-inclusive holiday and she befriended a young hotel worker who helped her out and played with her kids while her husband slept. They stayed in touch after she flew home and then he asked her to send him money because his phone broke so she did?!

Very young men do not just randomly develop a soft spot for married middle aged women with children… I would have been suspicious from the start!

Jf20 · 19/12/2023 13:12

NonPlayerCharacter · 19/12/2023 13:10

Those of us with a more nuanced, sympathetic and, I'd say, intelligent view of how people can get manipulated.

Show quote history

Honestly I know you thought you were being smug and clever there, but it came across the opposite. Engage in a conversation, but trying to big yourself up by putting others down, just looks cringe worthy.