Page 4 | Told off for not praying

Coffeeandcatsforlife · 2023-12-18T16:58:02+00:00

my son goes to a regular non religious mainstream primary school and he’s told me the head teacher was shouting at the year 3 children who weren’t praying in assembly. I asked what exactly he meant thinking maybe they were playing up but apparently it’s just not putting hands together to pray. We’re from an atheist family so praying isn’t something we do. Is she right to reprimand not praying? Surely not? My son is year 6 and wasn’t praying just sat quietly but as he’s year 6 and at back wasn’t spotted.

Original poster

Coffeeandcatsforlife · 18/12/2023 22:41

My son is a “I wish I had a class full of your child” type child. He’s very respectful, anxious, timid (working progress-trying or teach him to be more self assured, confident in himself. He was just sat quietly. I’ve told him he doesn’t need to put his hands together or bow his head to pray, if she does ever shout at him for not doing so then to just be polite and respectful and tell me and I’ll go speak to her.

OP posts:

RobertaFirmino · 19/12/2023 00:09

Oh come on now, these DC will have been whispering or otherwise messing. Did you not whisper, pass a note, hold back sniggers or pull a face in assembly? Not even once?

abominablesnowman · 19/12/2023 01:02

I remember at school 20 years ago being annoyed and at times angry at being forced to pray and sing hymns every day. I ended up just staying quiet most of the time but looking bad it's pretty shocking that that was the case. It's absolutely indefensible that this is still a thing that is forced on children.

Is there an opt-out? Because there really should be. Nobody should even be forced to be there and be indoctrinated like that, even if they do just stay silent. There is nothing 'respectful' about making people listen to it.

IdaPolly · 19/12/2023 01:16

hitherandhither · 18/12/2023 17:12

I work in a primary and feel it's far more likely if your DS was at the back he didn't see what had happened prior to the head reprimanding the year 3s. Staff also learn to project their voice to be heard above the noise of noisy children. A hall full of excited primary aged children just before Christmas break would definitely need the head to project their voice to be heard loudly!

We don't enforce hands together but we do expect respect for all religions so quiet sitting and listening with heads bowed to use the time to focus and reflect.

I agree this is far more likely. I wouldn't worry that your son is going to be shouted at while sitting sensibly.

penjil · 19/12/2023 02:09

You don't have to physically put your hands together to pray anyway. That's cartoon stuff.

🙄

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 06:20

5foot5 · 18/12/2023 22:06

I am not religious but I can remember this being explained when I was a small child at school. We were told that you don't actually need to bow your head and put your hands together to pray, but it is a good idea to because bowing your head means you don't get distracted by things around you and putting your hands together stops you from fidgeting.

I suppose this same reasoning could be used to justify asking the children to do this even if you don't expect them all to be praying, but want them to be respectful and contemplative.

How would you feel if someone was teaching them meditation techniques or something and wanted them to shut their eyes.

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When you teach meditation you ask people to shut their eyes only if they feel comfortable doing so.

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 06:23

Soapboxqueen · 18/12/2023 22:24

They'll have a reflection time, circle time, thought for the day, thoughts for the week or even just form group activities etc etc etc I've seen philosophy for children used in this way too.

The collective element doesn't have to be the whole school or whole year group.

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Possibly but that's not worship.

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 06:26

abominablesnowman · 19/12/2023 01:02

I remember at school 20 years ago being annoyed and at times angry at being forced to pray and sing hymns every day. I ended up just staying quiet most of the time but looking bad it's pretty shocking that that was the case. It's absolutely indefensible that this is still a thing that is forced on children.

Is there an opt-out? Because there really should be. Nobody should even be forced to be there and be indoctrinated like that, even if they do just stay silent. There is nothing 'respectful' about making people listen to it.

I believe parent's can opt their DC out.

crummi · 19/12/2023 08:11

abominablesnowman · 19/12/2023 01:02

I remember at school 20 years ago being annoyed and at times angry at being forced to pray and sing hymns every day. I ended up just staying quiet most of the time but looking bad it's pretty shocking that that was the case. It's absolutely indefensible that this is still a thing that is forced on children.

Is there an opt-out? Because there really should be. Nobody should even be forced to be there and be indoctrinated like that, even if they do just stay silent. There is nothing 'respectful' about making people listen to it.

Yes, any parent can opt their child out of collective worship, but unfortunately it means they miss any secular aspects of the assembly too - announcements, celebrations etc.

Most parents in non-faith schools don't feel it necessary to use the opt-out because their schools don't comply with the worship requirement anyway. Ironically, the low number of opt-outs is cited as one of the reasons not to change the Collective Worship law when it ocasionally gets debated in Parliament.

jgw1 · 19/12/2023 08:15

Catza · 18/12/2023 17:31

@donquixotedelamancha
All schools are required by law to perform prayers every day.

Surely this can't be right. They may be required by law to provide space and time for prayers for those who wish to engage with the practice but I can't believe the state would legislate for compulsory daily prayer in schools.

Edited

Every school in the country is required by law to have a daily act of collective worship for all pupils of a broadly Christian nature.
Which means that almost every school in the country should fail every inspection.