Page 5 | Unfair benefits sanction?

Snowymorning · 2023-12-16T21:17:27+00:00

Not a begging post and I’ll make things work but just wanted opinions whether I’ve been unfairly treated. I lost my job about 9 months ago due to cuts at work and I’m currently on Universal Credit and have been looking for work around school hours as I’m a single parent and my daughter is in reception . I was signed up for a back to work programme called Restart. Restart kept booking appointments in at school pick up time even though I had told them I can’t attend at these times. I always let them know and asked to rearrange but they kept doing it. I’ve now been sanctioned by the job centre for not attending two Restart appointments booked in at 3pm and they’ve took £363 off me this month. I just think this is unfair at Christmas time especially as a single mum with a 4 year old. I really don’t have anyone else who could have collected my daughter for me either. Fairly new to area and don’t know anybody who could have. Is this fair for them to have done this?

FreeRider · 17/12/2023 11:10

I have a friend who is a DWP Work Coach.

Once you've been referred to Restart, you are supposed to treat it as a job...you have to prove you are actively job searching for 35 hours a week, and prepared to take any job that is offered to you. It will be assumed that you wouldn't be able to leave a job early to pick up your kids on a regular basis, so you can't while you are on Restart. Restart meetings can be classed as mandatory, so missing any can lead to a sanction from the DWP.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 11:11

Thing is if doesn’t matter if people think it’s fair or not. The system is she’s expected to be available for work 30 hours a week and be job hunting for those hours when unemployed. Just like in a job, child care is solely the ops responsibility. This is clearly much more than 2 appts missed, that’s what she was sanctioned for, but it’s obviously been a longer issue, as she says they keep doing it and she keeps telling them she is unavailable and reorganising,so now they have moved to sanctions.

there is no doubt it is hard, but the system is, you need to be available for work 30 hours a week, or spend 30 hours a week intensively job searching. As said, she has likely aapplied for very little, as she wants to only work part time during school hours and term time. And will need to allow for drop off and pick up in that time, so clearly not available to do 30 hours a week. I suspect that’s the real issue here. She is not available and also is not attending mandatory interviews, I doubt every single one inc the ones rearranged were all for 3pm.

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 11:11

Frasers · 17/12/2023 09:48

I think she can claim child care as part of uc even though not employed.

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If you're unemployed you don't get childcare paid for! You have to be working AND it's paid in arrears even then.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 11:12

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 11:11

If you're unemployed you don't get childcare paid for! You have to be working AND it's paid in arrears even then.

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Oh do read the thread,

somedogsdo · 17/12/2023 11:12

To the poster that said OP might wish to be around for her child - I think, unfortunately, she doesn't have this luxury.
I'm not saying it's right. But as a single parent myself, I had to put my son with a (lovely) childminder from 12m and arrange wrap around care when he went to school so that I could work. Although my childcare costs were heavily subsidised through tax credits.

My sister (not a single parent) got to be a SAHM for years.
It's unfair but that's the reality.

I don't think it's realistic to think you can only look for work during school hours. I'm sorry this has happened but presumably you were made aware of the conditions for continuing to receive the benefits and you chose to ignore them. Whether it's fair or not is a different story - it is what it is.

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 11:13

Shelovespawpatrol · 17/12/2023 10:14

With a four year old, they would only expect her to work 16 hours per week- dinner lady work, part time shop work, part time admin work, deliveroo driver. There are school hour jobs out there, just few and far between.

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That's not correct. It's 30 hours now. 16 hours was only under the old tax credits system.

BabyMinnie · 17/12/2023 11:16

somedogsdo · 17/12/2023 00:57

But don't you get most of childcare paid for? I'm not sure of the timescales involved here but if they've given you enough time to arrange childcare and paid for it, why wouldn't you be available for work?

What is the point on commenting on things thay you clearly know nothing about?

ginandtonicwithlimes · 17/12/2023 11:27

Frasers · 17/12/2023 11:11

Thing is if doesn’t matter if people think it’s fair or not. The system is she’s expected to be available for work 30 hours a week and be job hunting for those hours when unemployed. Just like in a job, child care is solely the ops responsibility. This is clearly much more than 2 appts missed, that’s what she was sanctioned for, but it’s obviously been a longer issue, as she says they keep doing it and she keeps telling them she is unavailable and reorganising,so now they have moved to sanctions.

there is no doubt it is hard, but the system is, you need to be available for work 30 hours a week, or spend 30 hours a week intensively job searching. As said, she has likely aapplied for very little, as she wants to only work part time during school hours and term time. And will need to allow for drop off and pick up in that time, so clearly not available to do 30 hours a week. I suspect that’s the real issue here. She is not available and also is not attending mandatory interviews, I doubt every single one inc the ones rearranged were all for 3pm.

Work coaches are also meant to be flexible and take into account personal circumstances.

FestiveFruitloop · 17/12/2023 11:32

Frasers · 17/12/2023 11:11

Thing is if doesn’t matter if people think it’s fair or not. The system is she’s expected to be available for work 30 hours a week and be job hunting for those hours when unemployed. Just like in a job, child care is solely the ops responsibility. This is clearly much more than 2 appts missed, that’s what she was sanctioned for, but it’s obviously been a longer issue, as she says they keep doing it and she keeps telling them she is unavailable and reorganising,so now they have moved to sanctions.

there is no doubt it is hard, but the system is, you need to be available for work 30 hours a week, or spend 30 hours a week intensively job searching. As said, she has likely aapplied for very little, as she wants to only work part time during school hours and term time. And will need to allow for drop off and pick up in that time, so clearly not available to do 30 hours a week. I suspect that’s the real issue here. She is not available and also is not attending mandatory interviews, I doubt every single one inc the ones rearranged were all for 3pm.

None of this addresses what she is supposed to do about picking her DC up though?

Smellslikesummer · 17/12/2023 11:45

Most after school clubs are able to accommodate one-off bookings IME, especially since Covid as more parents are WFH and able to nip off to pickup.
Obviously not always the case but then you could also ask another parent to pickup your child in exchange for you picking up theirs another day, or asking a friend etc.

YaWeeFurryBastard · 17/12/2023 11:45

MonikerBing · 17/12/2023 10:25

There might be many reasons why she is looking for school hours only, including that she believes her daughter needs her around. There might be no or expensive wrap around care. In any case, I don't think the OP was asking whether she was being reasonable looking for school hours work.

Yes OP I think it's grossly unfair that you are being sanctioned for that. The work coach should be supporting you into work, not sanctioning you.

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I’m sorry but “believes her daughter needs her around” just doesn’t wash when the daughter also needs to be housed, fed and clothed. I think almost everyone would like to be around more for their kids, but as adults we accept we have a duty to provide for them, even if that means making compromises. There are vanishingly few circumstances where there is no wraparound care available, if not through school than through a local childminder. Expensive or inconvenient maybe, but like many others sometimes you just have to make it work.

My comment is relevant to the OPs post because whilst this sanction is unfair, I think the OP could potentially be further sanctioned if she continues to insist on school hours only work.

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 11:57

Smellslikesummer · 17/12/2023 11:45

Most after school clubs are able to accommodate one-off bookings IME, especially since Covid as more parents are WFH and able to nip off to pickup.
Obviously not always the case but then you could also ask another parent to pickup your child in exchange for you picking up theirs another day, or asking a friend etc.

DS's primary didn't as it was so oversubscribed. If you wanted your child to attend you had to commit to a regular slot. The only day they ever had one off spaces was Fridays as it wasn't a popular day.

MyopicBunny · 17/12/2023 11:58

My comment is relevant to the OPs post because whilst this sanction is unfair, I think the OP could potentially be further sanctioned if she continues to insist on school hours only work.

What you don't seem able to appreciate is that you can only get financial support for childcare once you have a job. Not before. So it makes sense that you would be able to work over school pick up once you have a job, because at that point you'd be able to claim support for childcare.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 12:00

YaWeeFurryBastard · 17/12/2023 11:45

I’m sorry but “believes her daughter needs her around” just doesn’t wash when the daughter also needs to be housed, fed and clothed. I think almost everyone would like to be around more for their kids, but as adults we accept we have a duty to provide for them, even if that means making compromises. There are vanishingly few circumstances where there is no wraparound care available, if not through school than through a local childminder. Expensive or inconvenient maybe, but like many others sometimes you just have to make it work.

My comment is relevant to the OPs post because whilst this sanction is unfair, I think the OP could potentially be further sanctioned if she continues to insist on school hours only work.

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I agree, these days you only get to not work and be there for your child if you can afford it, or are registered as a carer. It is a luxury. It isn’t a lifestyle choice benefits will pay for. You need to work and provide. Benefits will not provide that luxury for you.

We can agree or disagree, all we like, but that’s the beginning and end of it, you are given time, now nearly approx 3.5 years all in, with 9 months unemployed, 1 year restart, 18 months post that, before benefits are stopped or forced into mandatory employment and placed. But not engaging in mandatory meetings or making yourself available for work during that process, not intensively searching for qork, not searching for work 30 hours a week and evidencing that, , will result in sanctions very very quickly , and possibly even full withdrawal of benefits. And that’s what you agree to, to get the benefits.

YaWeeFurryBastard · 17/12/2023 12:01

MyopicBunny · 17/12/2023 11:58

My comment is relevant to the OPs post because whilst this sanction is unfair, I think the OP could potentially be further sanctioned if she continues to insist on school hours only work.

What you don't seem able to appreciate is that you can only get financial support for childcare once you have a job. Not before. So it makes sense that you would be able to work over school pick up once you have a job, because at that point you'd be able to claim support for childcare.

Um, I do appreciate that and I have clearly said the sanction seems unfair. Obviously it’s unfair since the OP can’t be expected to commit to regular childcare when she doesn’t yet know her hours. Please read my posts before trying to be patronising 🙄

MyopicBunny · 17/12/2023 12:03

I'm not being 'patronising'. You said 'there are vanishingly few circumstances where wraparound care isn't available' which is rubbish. Not everyone has the same circumstances as you.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 12:06

MyopicBunny · 17/12/2023 12:03

I'm not being 'patronising'. You said 'there are vanishingly few circumstances where wraparound care isn't available' which is rubbish. Not everyone has the same circumstances as you.

It’s not rubbish, far from it, the poster specifically said it maybe expensive or inconvenient, and it’s absolutely true. For a very rare meeting, say once a month, the op absolutely can find child care.

MyopicBunny · 17/12/2023 12:08

OP has just moved to the area. Where I live, child minders are booked up fully. I know this because I have several friends who are child minders. What is more is that they require you to book a minimum number of hours per week for it to work for them financially.

ginandtonicwithlimes · 17/12/2023 12:11

Frasers · 17/12/2023 12:00

I agree, these days you only get to not work and be there for your child if you can afford it, or are registered as a carer. It is a luxury. It isn’t a lifestyle choice benefits will pay for. You need to work and provide. Benefits will not provide that luxury for you.

We can agree or disagree, all we like, but that’s the beginning and end of it, you are given time, now nearly approx 3.5 years all in, with 9 months unemployed, 1 year restart, 18 months post that, before benefits are stopped or forced into mandatory employment and placed. But not engaging in mandatory meetings or making yourself available for work during that process, not intensively searching for qork, not searching for work 30 hours a week and evidencing that, , will result in sanctions very very quickly , and possibly even full withdrawal of benefits. And that’s what you agree to, to get the benefits.

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Maybe blame the absent father than OP. It is also discrimination against single mothers because a couple can have one parent not working and not need to work because the other one earns enough to meet the couples threshold.

I don't see an issue if a mum wants to stay at home and use benefits until school age. Childcare is expensive and getting less available.

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 12:12

I was made redundant in July and the lovely work coach made appointments for me during school hours even though my DS is 15 and comes home from school by himself! Some just seem to like being awkward for the sake of it.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 12:12

ginandtonicwithlimes · 17/12/2023 12:11

Maybe blame the absent father than OP. It is also discrimination against single mothers because a couple can have one parent not working and not need to work because the other one earns enough to meet the couples threshold.

I don't see an issue if a mum wants to stay at home and use benefits until school age. Childcare is expensive and getting less available.

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I have not blamed the op. Did you quote the wrong post? I explained the system. And I don’t know the op, I don’t know if the father is absent, alive, in another country, a sperm donor. No clue.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 12:13

MyopicBunny · 17/12/2023 12:08

OP has just moved to the area. Where I live, child minders are booked up fully. I know this because I have several friends who are child minders. What is more is that they require you to book a minimum number of hours per week for it to work for them financially.

What are you trying to do? Factually she can find child care for a couple of hours if she wishes, if maybe expensive, hugely inconvenient, involve a whole day, but she can do it for occasional needs.

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 12:14

ginandtonicwithlimes · 17/12/2023 12:11

Maybe blame the absent father than OP. It is also discrimination against single mothers because a couple can have one parent not working and not need to work because the other one earns enough to meet the couples threshold.

I don't see an issue if a mum wants to stay at home and use benefits until school age. Childcare is expensive and getting less available.

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I agree and I'd be happy for my taxes to pay for it. I'm a lone working parent and the early years were stressful enough. There is much sympathy for struggling SAHMs who have husbands but the single SAHMs are called lazy despite doing ALL the parenting alone.

MyopicBunny · 17/12/2023 12:14

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 12:12

I was made redundant in July and the lovely work coach made appointments for me during school hours even though my DS is 15 and comes home from school by himself! Some just seem to like being awkward for the sake of it.

Maybe they get bonuses for applying sanctions? It wouldn't surprise me.

I hope the OP takes our advice to contact her MP.

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 12:16

Frasers · 17/12/2023 12:13

What are you trying to do? Factually she can find child care for a couple of hours if she wishes, if maybe expensive, hugely inconvenient, involve a whole day, but she can do it for occasional needs.

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IF she can afford it. Benefits are a pittance and she may not have the spare cash!