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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Unfair benefits sanction?

212 replies

Snowymorning · 16/12/2023 21:17

Not a begging post and I’ll make things work but just wanted opinions whether I’ve been unfairly treated. I lost my job about 9 months ago due to cuts at work and I’m currently on Universal Credit and have been looking for work around school hours as I’m a single parent and my daughter is in reception . I was signed up for a back to work programme called Restart. Restart kept booking appointments in at school pick up time even though I had told them I can’t attend at these times. I always let them know and asked to rearrange but they kept doing it. I’ve now been sanctioned by the job centre for not attending two Restart appointments booked in at 3pm and they’ve took £363 off me this month. I just think this is unfair at Christmas time especially as a single mum with a 4 year old. I really don’t have anyone else who could have collected my daughter for me either. Fairly new to area and don’t know anybody who could have. Is this fair for them to have done this?

OP posts:
caringcarer · 16/12/2023 23:17

Babyroobs · 16/12/2023 21:39

I also think £360 + pounds is a ridiculous amount to take off you though.

Yes that seems a lot to me. Why is it so high? Can you find a child minder who would collect your DC from school and look after for an hour or so to enable you to attend? It's probably a box ticking exercise and once you've been, your sanction will be listed.

nzborn · 17/12/2023 00:42

That's disgusting

HollyBerri · 17/12/2023 00:55

you need to ask for a mandatory reconsideration and state that although you are willing to work outside school hours by using paid childcare its impossible to find it for 1 off appointments.
Childcare is difficult enough to source anyway but almost impossible for the odd here and there.

somedogsdo · 17/12/2023 00:57

But don't you get most of childcare paid for? I'm not sure of the timescales involved here but if they've given you enough time to arrange childcare and paid for it, why wouldn't you be available for work?

Pickles2023 · 17/12/2023 00:57

Can you appeal?

I had problems with them with rent...they said my rent was fraud...cut housing element and were taking out repayment from previous month of rent.

It went to a judge that ordered back pay and reinstatement..apparently they thought it was fraud as my tenancy said i didnt need a deposit..they presumed that meant landlord doesnt mind if i dont pay 😤 ridiculous.

Heyhoherewegoagain · 17/12/2023 01:00

Jk987 · 16/12/2023 21:42

Seems harsh but what will you do for after school childcare when you start work? Can the child's Dad or relative pick up sometimes?

When she starts work she’ll organise regular childcare.

Its a nightmare to organise chilcare for ad hoc things

Tinkerbyebye · 17/12/2023 02:18

How much notice where you given? Could your child have attended after school club for that day..

ginandtonicwithlimes · 17/12/2023 06:02

Just to say in many areas there is no after school clubs or the very few available are booked up.

user1492757084 · 17/12/2023 06:13

It's not fair.
Can you put forward your case for review?

You need to be prepared to find a job and complete the training though. Work out ways of being more flexible and participating in the scheme. Getting a job sooner rather than later is a benefit to you.

dhxxx · 17/12/2023 06:18

somedogsdo · 17/12/2023 00:57

But don't you get most of childcare paid for? I'm not sure of the timescales involved here but if they've given you enough time to arrange childcare and paid for it, why wouldn't you be available for work?

She wouldn't get childcare paid for unless working. So they wouldn't pay for it to attend these appointments. Bit of a catch 22 situation

AnneValentine · 17/12/2023 08:10

Frasers · 16/12/2023 22:38

Restart is more intensive, it’s aimed at the longer term unemployed, and it is mandatory to be available for appts and available for work. You clearly can rearrange for an emergency or health issue, or one off child care issue, but not just I’m not available during these hours.

the op needs to be careful , from late next year, and when/if the op has been unemployed for 18 months after completing restart. She will be placed in mandatory employment and if she doesn’t do it, her benefits will be stopped. So she’s got some time, but if she’s not employed by the 18 month point, she will be given mandatory employment.

and likely she will keep getting appts made at times she should be available for work but isn’t. And if she keeps missing them, they will view it as not engaging and stop her benefits totally.

Show quote history

I am aware. But someone saying you would be expected to be there if it was work has missed that this isn’t work.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 09:24

AnneValentine · 17/12/2023 08:10

I am aware. But someone saying you would be expected to be there if it was work has missed that this isn’t work.

Show quote history

I think they were aware it’s not work. They were making the comparison it is treated the same in this circumstance.

fair or not, is really irrelevant. The op needs to fully engage and attend these appts, its restart, which is a different animal , and as said generally aimed at the longer term unemployed. She is likely at risk of losing her benefits totally. If she doesn’t get employment she could be placed in mandatory employment 2025.

looking for term time work, in school hours only, that allows drop off and pick up, is like looking for unicorns.

Hubblebubble · 17/12/2023 09:25

OP remote work can take many forms, it's not just for research scientists. I think it's worth pushing whoevers helping you to find something that will fit around your life. It's the 21st century. Flexitime means you only have to be available within core hours, mine for example are 10 to 2 pm.

megletthesecond · 17/12/2023 09:28

It's not fair. But the people who put these sanctions in place don't care about the mess it causes.

TwilightSkies · 17/12/2023 09:30

It’s not fair they expected you to attend when you have no childcare.
However, you need to get a job and use childcare like most other people do. Trying to get a job that fits perfectly within school hours is taking the piss a bit. Jobs like that are very rare.

LadyWithLapdog · 17/12/2023 09:34

It’s unfair as a disproportionate sanction IMO. Next time I would take the child out of school for this (can she be with you for these appointments?), or ask for a remote appointment, if that’s a possibility.

LadyWithLapdog · 17/12/2023 09:36

But also, as others have said, you need to widen the hours you’re available for work.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 09:39

megletthesecond · 17/12/2023 09:28

It's not fair. But the people who put these sanctions in place don't care about the mess it causes.

the op is clearly longer term unemployed, and only looking for jobs that are very rare. The expectation when longer term unemployed is yoh are available for work, and intensively job search. The op is not available for work unless in the middle sectio of the day, and is missing appts due to that. Which is seen as not engaging.

Dont get me wrong, it’s shit, but if she was willing to work a full time job and find child care, this would be a different situation, they would likely be more lenient, but she isn’t. She won’t even apply for jobs that don’t suit her needs, so she must be applying for very little indeed. So it’s a much wider issue.

AnneValentine · 17/12/2023 09:40

Frasers · 17/12/2023 09:24

I think they were aware it’s not work. They were making the comparison it is treated the same in this circumstance.

fair or not, is really irrelevant. The op needs to fully engage and attend these appts, its restart, which is a different animal , and as said generally aimed at the longer term unemployed. She is likely at risk of losing her benefits totally. If she doesn’t get employment she could be placed in mandatory employment 2025.

looking for term time work, in school hours only, that allows drop off and pick up, is like looking for unicorns.

Show quote history

It shouldn’t be. If you’re working you will have regular childcare. That’s different from one off requirements.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 09:43

AnneValentine · 17/12/2023 09:40

It shouldn’t be. If you’re working you will have regular childcare. That’s different from one off requirements.

Show quote history

But it is, I think the expectation is you job search for 35 hours a week when longer term unemployed.

ANightingale · 17/12/2023 09:43

Isn't this a 'Catch 22' - if the OP was in work, she could afford childcare at those times, but since she is unemployed, it would be ridiculous to spend her limited means on childcare.

ginandtonicwithlimes · 17/12/2023 09:47

TwilightSkies · 17/12/2023 09:30

It’s not fair they expected you to attend when you have no childcare.
However, you need to get a job and use childcare like most other people do. Trying to get a job that fits perfectly within school hours is taking the piss a bit. Jobs like that are very rare.

She might not have any family to pick the child up. There might not be after school clubs available in that area. She may not have any choice but to look for those jobs. Life isn't black and white.

Frasers · 17/12/2023 09:48

ANightingale · 17/12/2023 09:43

Isn't this a 'Catch 22' - if the OP was in work, she could afford childcare at those times, but since she is unemployed, it would be ridiculous to spend her limited means on childcare.

I think she can claim child care as part of uc even though not employed.

ginandtonicwithlimes · 17/12/2023 09:50

Frasers · 17/12/2023 09:48

I think she can claim child care as part of uc even though not employed.

Show quote history

She can't.