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AIBU?

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Original poster

Buy BTL house for postcode for secondary? Please help

331 replies

Schoolhousemystery · 15/12/2023 12:26

Please tell me if I got it right or wrong in my head! I think there is probably something I have not considered well.

We live in a house which we bought and we have a mortgage.

We have saved around £100k which we can use for a deposit for another house.

Our kids are early KS1 years but we don't have a good comp secondary around - we live in a heavy grammar area.

Would it be a strategic move to buy a second property close to a good comp secondary, have a buy-to-let mortgage on it , and use this address for the secondary applications? It will work well for most grammars anyway.

Would it matter that someone else would live in there as the mortgage would be buy-to-let? If we get a place to that school we will move there but since the primary is next door to our house we wouldn't like to move from now. And we don't want the money to sit in our account forever.

This house would be used from us as a back-up if our kids won't do well in the grammar results.

AIBU - There is something I am missing and we can't use an address that someone else lives even if we own that property

AINBU - You can use the address of your hypothetical BTL property

OP posts:
CalistoNoSolo · 15/12/2023 12:50

Hobbi · 15/12/2023 12:48

No. No one can cheat the system, that's the definition of 'not allowed'. You can attempt to be a dishonest cheat and fraud if you choose. Like a tax dodger, benefit cheat or shoplifter. You seem determined to commit fraud however so I'm not sure why you asked. BTW, you will get found out; in the meantime your children will never be able to bring friends home, you'll miss important letters from school and, when your children lose their place, you will have disrupted their education due to your sense of entitlement and belief that the rules don't apply to you as you're better and richer than other folk.

Show quote history

Quite the overreaction there.

PuttingDownRoots · 15/12/2023 12:51

You need to actually move house, at the end of year 5. Commute to primary for a year if you want.

Otherwise you just risk having no school place.

twistyizzy · 15/12/2023 12:52

Lmao at all these posters saying go Private when the vitriol on MN against private schools is sometimes staggering.
For anyone who is interested this is a snapshot of what will happen if Labour bring in the VAT charge. You think private parents will send their kids to the local, failing state secondary?! Not a chance, they will do exactly what the OP is suggesting/move house to catchment area of good schools and thereby inflate house prices further.

TItanicTea · 15/12/2023 12:52

Grin at 'burner house'.

Original poster
Schoolhousemystery · 15/12/2023 12:53

I came here for some serious advice. When I started the thread I didn't have a clue about all this.

Please try to help and don't be judgemental. I am not stupid enough to do something illegal, I am just trying to understand the options.

So, what people do? If we relocate on time, then we would have to live to this property for the duration of year 6 essentially? So to move the summer before the applications?

And as I have a younger kid who would be year 3 in our current primary, would I have to drive 30' back and forth everyday for this year?

Is this what people do to secure a good school for their kids?

OP posts:
Hobbi · 15/12/2023 12:54

@CalistoNoSolo

Don't think so. The OP is acting like the rules don't apply to her and truly believes the school, local authorities and other parents are beneath her and will be unable to decipher her clever ruses. All fraud has victims.

BoohooWoohoo · 15/12/2023 12:54

Best thing to do is to leave current primary at end of year 5 and go to a new primary for year 6. New primary will be near the new house and has the advantage of your kids meeting others who may move up to secondary with them.

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 15/12/2023 12:54

Schoolhousemystery · 15/12/2023 12:43

Ok. Thank you all!

Buy to let is not going to work, thank you, I didn't know it.

We need to live there, I understand that too.

The only solution based on your responses would be to keep the second house empty before the application, during and until we get the result.

Pay the council tax on our names and move GP.

A financial question please - Can we arrange with the bank to have two properties with mortgage and none of them to be BTL?

If not, I guess only cash buyers could "cheat" the system?

That would still be fraud because you still wouldn't be living in the house in the new area. Not sure why you aren't getting this.

littlegrebe · 15/12/2023 12:54

You seem to be genuinely outraged that the system is not set up to allow you to buy the state school place you want without some inconvenience on your part. May I recommend you have a think about the implications of this?

twistyizzy · 15/12/2023 12:54

@Schoolhousemystery only people with money. Most people just have to send their kids to the nearest school, whether it is crap or not. Or you pay private.

Bovrilly · 15/12/2023 12:55

The only solution based on your responses would be to keep the second house empty before the application, during and until we get the result.

No, it can't be empty, you have to live there, not just register for council tax in your name. They will never fall for it, it's so easy to figure out. The only solution is to actually move, ideally selling the current house so there are no grounds for suspicion, and commute to the primary school in the meantime.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 15/12/2023 12:55

And as I have a younger kid who would be year 3 in our current primary, would I have to drive 30' back and forth everyday for this year?

Yes.

And round here you’d have to continue doing that as out if catchment siblings are further down the list than catchment siblings so you wouldn’t be guaranteed a place for them if you moved back to your actual home

SnowsFalling · 15/12/2023 12:55

Sell current house.
Buy or rent new house.
Either transport the kids every day, or move primary school to one new the near house.

Hobbi · 15/12/2023 12:56

Schoolhousemystery · 15/12/2023 12:53

I came here for some serious advice. When I started the thread I didn't have a clue about all this.

Please try to help and don't be judgemental. I am not stupid enough to do something illegal, I am just trying to understand the options.

So, what people do? If we relocate on time, then we would have to live to this property for the duration of year 6 essentially? So to move the summer before the applications?

And as I have a younger kid who would be year 3 in our current primary, would I have to drive 30' back and forth everyday for this year?

Is this what people do to secure a good school for their kids?

It's simple, if you don't want to do anything illegal, move house or go to the school where you're offered a place. There are no other legal options.

LIZS · 15/12/2023 12:56

Many LA will not accept a second address if there is another owned property within a reasonable distance, or even if you "move" near the application date. If you btl your tenants will use that address for gp, dwp, hmrc, council tax etc

skgnome · 15/12/2023 12:56

You have 3 options, since you obvhave the money
move to a be house in the catchment of the secondary school the year before you need to apply
if you have good secondary schools but all grammar, pay a private tutor and get your kids in a grammar
pay for private, they don’t care where you live

DeltaAlphaDelta79 · 15/12/2023 12:57

I work as a fraud investigator for a local council. Thank you for keeping my colleagues and I in work 😁

You will need to live properly in one property and use that as your actual lived at address, for schools, council tax, etc etc.

I am currently investigating several cases similar to this, and they are usually fairly easy to spot and investigate.

Original poster
Schoolhousemystery · 15/12/2023 12:58

@PuttingDownRoots would that work with Grammar tuition? Our DC will sit the grammar test as I said and the end of year 5 is when kids are tutored, having mock exams etc.

Would his tutor want to drive 30' to our "new" property? I mean what do people do in this situation?

If we move in mid September year 6 i.e. the week following the 11+ exam would that still work for the applications?

OP posts:
Hughs · 15/12/2023 12:58

I think a PP has the right idea, sell current house, move, put DC in primary schools in new area so that the older one has a chance to make new friends in Y6 and you don't have to commute.

thelonemommabear · 15/12/2023 12:59

My children schools and those in the local area do a home visit .....

Bobsyouraunty · 15/12/2023 12:59

I don’t know if Mumsnet was the best place to post this question…

BoohooWoohoo · 15/12/2023 12:59

Check the admissions for the comp. Our one has linked primaries which is why I started my son at a new school for year 6. It worked well because he met people going to the comp before year 7 which made transition a little easier.

NoSquirrels · 15/12/2023 13:00

Yes, OP, what people do is decide they’ll have to move house to get the secondary school place they need/choose/prefer, and arrange to have moved their family by the time they need to apply - usually they try to move in the summer of Y5 for the eldest.

Then they can either commute their DC to their existing primary school, or look for places in a primary school nearby.

Councils and schools are very well versed in catching people who have tried to game the system like you’re suggesting. Then you end up with no school place.

blankittyblank · 15/12/2023 13:00

Schoolhousemystery · 15/12/2023 12:43

Ok. Thank you all!

Buy to let is not going to work, thank you, I didn't know it.

We need to live there, I understand that too.

The only solution based on your responses would be to keep the second house empty before the application, during and until we get the result.

Pay the council tax on our names and move GP.

A financial question please - Can we arrange with the bank to have two properties with mortgage and none of them to be BTL?

If not, I guess only cash buyers could "cheat" the system?

Can you afford the extra stamp duty on a second property? You get charged more for a second home.

CurlewKate · 15/12/2023 13:00

How can you make it work? Maybe by not being hysterical about schools....