Page 2 | To have discharged myself from A&E?

AandEnightmare · 2023-12-15T07:03:40+00:00

As the username suggests… I attended A&E with numbness is my hand, pins and needles in both arms and legs, blurred vision and extreme stuff neck pain. Stroke nurse was happy it wasn’t a stroke but wanted an MRI as did A&E consultant. Both concerned about MS and tragically I then urinated myself in the A&E waiting room where I was left on a wooden chair for 8 hours. i asked for a change of clothes, just a hospital gown and was told until I was seen by a neurologist who agreed to book me in; this wasn’t possible. I have long covid and extreme fatigue and pain at the best of times and I was in tears in the waiting room crippled in pain and exhaustion and was just told repeatedly that only a neurologist could determine if an MRI was needed as an emergency or as an outpatient and on the time of leaving, after 7 hours, I was number 13 on the list so expected to be seen by this evening. I will ring my GP as soon as open but I’ve never had such a terrible experience in a hospital in my life! i feel shocked

Bandolina · 15/12/2023 07:58

A receptionist would not be able to say anything about a clinical decision on an MRI so that was a bit much to expect of her to advise on.

CTs are commonly done in A&E but MRIs very rarely are. I would have thought the chance of getting an MRI on the spot was very small. I'd suggest the decision would be more about whether you should be admitted to a neuro ward or seen as an OP. A&E must have thought there was a chance you would be admitted to refer you to neuro.

You have every right as a capacitous adult to discharge yourself so YANBU. The problem is that the outpatient neurologist wait will be massive as well. Another 2 junior Dr strikes are coming up plus winter pressures. In that context if I was very seriously concerned I might have MS or another neuro condition I would have waited as long as it took under whatever circumstances personally because you will now be waiting even longer with no answers. It will be weeks to months rather than hours to a day for a specialist neuro opinion which is actually of more value than a scan.

RosesAndHellebores · 15/12/2023 07:59

What sort of vile individuals leave a fellow human sitting in a puddle of pee?

When I have been in A&E the minute one gets through to cubicles there seem to be more staff than patients and a lot of chat about cake, holidays and teabreaks with very little thought for the patients and even less nursing.

It isn't just about resources there's something deeply culturally wrong.

@AandEnightmare I hope you complain and do copy in your MP. If people are being left sitting in pee, the CEO ought to be coming in and getting their hands dirty.

widowtwankywashroom · 15/12/2023 08:00

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 15/12/2023 07:52

I expect you to show some compassion to OP. In this circumstance I would expect OP to have been given a gown, a towel and a patient’s property bag so she could go to the bathroom and sort herself out at least.

Show quote history

OP said she told the receptionist, not a nurse, the nurses may not even have known, yet are supposed to deal with it?

Ifellasleep · 15/12/2023 08:01

No, it’s awful.

indischarged myself after a head injury recently. I’d been taken straight through to fit to sit with my child who had to sit on the floor. After 3 hours I was fit enough to ask if my CT was ok and it was so I left with another 3 hour wait for a doctor. My GP has instructed me to go multiple times for neuro symptoms to be checked and I haven’t due to how bad it is.

i hope you’re ok, can you get yourself back or to another a&e that is a bit quieter this morning?

widowtwankywashroom · 15/12/2023 08:02

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 15/12/2023 07:52

I expect you to show some compassion to OP. In this circumstance I would expect OP to have been given a gown, a towel and a patient’s property bag so she could go to the bathroom and sort herself out at least.

Show quote history

I am not denying this, but the nurses weren't aware.
The receptionist should have offered this I can't answer to why they didn't.

Original poster

AandEnightmare · 15/12/2023 08:05

I couldn’t physically sit any longer in this amount of pain
The only relief I get when I’m in the midst of a Fibro flare is to lie down and I asked for this multiple times and they said nowhere was free
The receptionist passed on the issue re weeing myself to the A&E doctor but no clothes offered and as I said; refused when I asked
i have awful fatigue and can’t keep my eyes open at the best of times let alone after 7 hours of sitting in a wooden chair 😢

OP posts:

RosesAndHellebores · 15/12/2023 08:07

@widowtwankywashroom if the receptionist didn't report and assist that's a cultural issue. Perhaps the nurses get pissed off and snap at the admin staff like they snap at the patients if they have to do some work/answer a question or God forbid to deal with pee instead of chatting about cake.

It's far more to do with attitude and toxic cultures than with under resourcing. Wide screen giant tellies all over the place and £13m on Equality Directors.

SausageCasseroles · 15/12/2023 08:08

I was in A and E overnight on Tuesday. There was a whole group of us that sat there from midnight til 7/8am to be seen. And I wished they'd sent us home and told us to come back. Several of us had blood tests /xrays etc and had said "if they tell us it's not urgent we can come back but we can't discharge in case it is urgent).

A hca was coming round the waiting area doing obs.

My 15 year old had overdosed. And stayed in the waiting area until 9.30am to be seen by a doctor. I couldn't take her home as she'd overdosed... but she also wasn't seen by a dr after bloods had been taken and was struggling in the hard chairs in a cramped waiting room in a distressed state. She had her psch assessment around 11am and by then was almost delirious with exhaustion. If they'd said after her blood test she wasn't in immediate danger we could have gone home. We asked if we could but told it would be considered against medical advice...

When we finally got into A and E proper there were beds lining the corridors. It reminded me of the fear stuff shown to us at the start of covid of overrun hospitals... they were completely overrun.

There was a man with us with a broken arm that kept saying if they'd just tell him what the xray said and gave him some pain killers he could come back the next day.... but they also didn't want him to leave.

2 people came in who had been seen the day before. Told to come in as an emergency after test results had come back and then just sat all night in A and E as there were no beds...

It truly was awful. And that was a Tuesday.

SausageCasseroles · 15/12/2023 08:09

To clarify. The doctors were run off their feet- it was that the hospital was completely full and there was noway of treating people. But also no system to come back later. When it said there was a 13 hour wait I did ask if we could go home and sleep for a few hours (around 5am) but told that's not allowed.

CaroleSinger · 15/12/2023 08:16

Does it really take a Dr 13 hours to see one group if patients in A&E? Surely they can get through patients quicker than that? It makes you wonder what they are actually doing while everyone is sat there for hours. It creates more an image of taking all the time 8n the world rather than being run off feet. How did we get here? It wasn't that long ago you just walked in and got seen. There were no 4 or 6 hour waits.

lemmein · 15/12/2023 08:17

widowtwankywashroom · 15/12/2023 07:35

I don't think people realise the state of A&E at present, where I work there is a 14 hour wait to see a Dr!

You were seen by a nurse and a Dr who were happy it wasn't a stroke etc, but that an MRI was needed, I presume a a Neurologist wasn't on? Did you attend overnight? Not all specialities are covered 24hrs a day.

So it seems from this you were seen pretty quickly? Once an acute event ruled out you were then waiting for a specialist?

It is awful you were sat in a chair, but if all the cubicles were taken, where do you expect them to put you?

As for urinating yourself, agree, very humiliating, but staff don't have changes of clothes, yes a gown should have been offered etc.

This should have been highlighted to staff as it can be a sign of Cauda Eqina - which is an emergency

However if you have discharged yourself you have terminated that episode of care and you will now have to wait for your GP to refer you

Edited

And this is what is wrong in a nutshell - the NHS is full of staff with a 'what do you expect me to do about it?' attitude.

More kindness is shown to animals.

I'm sorry you've had such a shit night op. My DD has a chronic condition which has meant many trips to A&E over the years - I think the state of the NHS is terrifying.

YireosDodeAver · 15/12/2023 08:17

What an awful experience OP and ywnbu to return home when you did, the referral for MRI from your GP will probably end up being on a very similar timescale to if you had waited.

However I do think that people generally (not specifically directed at you OP) need to reformulate their expectations for attending A&E understanding that this is how it is until some kind or major reform happens. I wouldn't dream of attending A&E alone or allowing anyone I know to do so. Even a casual acquaintance who you don't know that well would have the compassion, in an emergency like this, to bring you in some spare clothes and anything else you need to get you through the wait. Taking in your own pillows and blankets, a change of clothes, an eyemask and earplugs, and something you can put your feet up onto if you are just sat in a chair, along with some food and drinks and money for the vending machine, is basic A&E survival kit which obviously you cannot always gather in your initial rush to get there if you are having acute symptoms but once triaged to a non-emergency status you know you are in for a long wait and you need someone to bring those in for you. Those of us without family nearby need to buddy up with each other to be an emergency contact and be there for each other.

There are some countries where hospitals provide no food for patients and nursing care is minimal, you only survive if you have a relative or other supporter with you. We in aren't quite so dire straits as that yet but we need to fit our behaviour to the resources available rather than expecting everything to run as smoothly as it would if it was fully funded and staffed.

adomizo · 15/12/2023 08:26

Goodness OP what an awful experience I hope you are feeling better.
It's so worrying that many of the responses here are so accepting of these dismal conditions in a&e. This is not the situation we should be tolerating and is not what an A&E would look like in other countries.
We need to speak out not normalise this chronic underfunded and inefficient system.

Carriemac · 15/12/2023 08:26

CaroleSinger · 15/12/2023 08:16

Does it really take a Dr 13 hours to see one group if patients in A&E? Surely they can get through patients quicker than that? It makes you wonder what they are actually doing while everyone is sat there for hours. It creates more an image of taking all the time 8n the world rather than being run off feet. How did we get here? It wasn't that long ago you just walked in and got seen. There were no 4 or 6 hour waits.

My DS is a junior doctor in A@E. when you go on shift with a backlog of 13 hours to see parents, are handled over a large cohort of complex very ill patient to look after who are waiting h for beds or tests / results and then start seeing patients who have been waiting thebaew rin off their feet and frustrated by the quality of care they deliver . He has nothing but praise for the hard working staff but he is off to Australia to a properly resourced heathvatw susht and I fear he won't come back .

All hospitals have access to an mri for cauda equine MRI service , you may need to transfer elsewhere for the scan though .

CyberCritical · 15/12/2023 08:27

It does sound like a really unpleasant experience.

I think now from a practical pragmatic stance there are things that you need to do.

get in contact with your GP, the symptoms are still there and the incontinence is a symptom
pack an overnight bag that you can take with you in case you need to attend A&E again

Youdirtysonofagun · 15/12/2023 08:27

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

adomizo · 15/12/2023 08:28

YireosDodeAver · 15/12/2023 08:17

What an awful experience OP and ywnbu to return home when you did, the referral for MRI from your GP will probably end up being on a very similar timescale to if you had waited.

However I do think that people generally (not specifically directed at you OP) need to reformulate their expectations for attending A&E understanding that this is how it is until some kind or major reform happens. I wouldn't dream of attending A&E alone or allowing anyone I know to do so. Even a casual acquaintance who you don't know that well would have the compassion, in an emergency like this, to bring you in some spare clothes and anything else you need to get you through the wait. Taking in your own pillows and blankets, a change of clothes, an eyemask and earplugs, and something you can put your feet up onto if you are just sat in a chair, along with some food and drinks and money for the vending machine, is basic A&E survival kit which obviously you cannot always gather in your initial rush to get there if you are having acute symptoms but once triaged to a non-emergency status you know you are in for a long wait and you need someone to bring those in for you. Those of us without family nearby need to buddy up with each other to be an emergency contact and be there for each other.

There are some countries where hospitals provide no food for patients and nursing care is minimal, you only survive if you have a relative or other supporter with you. We in aren't quite so dire straits as that yet but we need to fit our behaviour to the resources available rather than expecting everything to run as smoothly as it would if it was fully funded and staffed.

Seriously why are we accepting this to be normal and that we should be expecting to pack an entire kit and bring a spare person to A&E. This is not how it should be!!!!! This is the UK in 2023. What on earth?????

MrsHobbit · 15/12/2023 08:31

I'm so sorry OP. The NHS is absolutely fucked.

My dad had a neurological illness and was in A&E with a head injury after a fall. He was left overnight on a trolley in a corridor in his own piss and shit last year. It was horrific.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 15/12/2023 08:32

widowtwankywashroom · 15/12/2023 08:00

OP said she told the receptionist, not a nurse, the nurses may not even have known, yet are supposed to deal with it?

Show quote history

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for OP to expect the receptionist to escalate an issue to the clinical team with responsibility for her care.

It may be that your hospital is so dysfunctional that such a system does not exist, but from the patient’s point of view she has reported an issue, which she can reasonably expect to be addressed.

I have spent my whole career in the NHS. I know it’s dreadful out there on the front line, but all you are doing here is reinforcing the idea that the NHS is shit and doesn’t care. Fortunately there are other HCPs on here who agree with me, and not with you.

CormorantStrikesBack · 15/12/2023 08:32

Sadly this is normal in a$e now. Dd is a regular attender due to chronic health conditions. When we were last there there was a 92yo lady from my village with dementia who’d been sat in a hard plastic chair in the waiting room for 48hrs waiting for a bed. She’d collapsed unconscious at home, brought in by ambulance and was a suspected cardiac issue. She’d been seen but they wanted to admit her and no beds available. It’s terrible

Greybluewhite · 15/12/2023 08:34

Normal now I think.
I waited 5 hours with two babies with breathing difficulties last week, one was eventually admitted and the other given antibiotics but only after hours of waiting.

Ill make sure to take an overnight bag next time I go (hopefully never!)

comfyoldcardi · 15/12/2023 08:36

I was sat in A&E a while ago, child had broken leg. A man sitting a few rows behind me, clearly very unwell, fell forwards off the chair onto the floor and landed on his head, blood everywhere. They had to come and pick him up then. Poor man was in an awful state. It is really frightening.

WhereDidILeaveMyMojo · 15/12/2023 08:37

I’ve put that you were being unreasonable to discharge yourself because your symptoms are such that you need very urgent medical attention. I hope you’re getting that this morning.

2boyzNosleep · 15/12/2023 08:38

As awful as your situation is, I would wait and see if they do an MRI. It's much easier for them to fit it in and do it while you're in either A&E or a ward. Obviously they may decide its not an emergency and discharge you, but the hospital would book the outpatient appointment.

If you leave and wait for GP to refer you, it could be MONTHS.

Better to wait however many hours, rather than months.

Toddlerteaplease · 15/12/2023 08:41

Definitely complain about being left wet. That should not have happened. The staff do care. They are completely overwhelmed.