to not have children because I can't give them a better or even equal life to mine?

[eastea]

I grew up poor but I was bright, worked hard, went to University, got a first, and then a masters degree. I met and married my DH also the first in his family to go to university and have a professional job. We worked hard but we still have a standard of living roughly equivalent to that of our parents had and that is without us having kids yet. Even our generation as promised so much if only we got a degree but it all turned out to be lies for the most part, these days the debt is even more and the rewards even fewer so what about when babies today grow up?

It feels like in order to actually move up in the world now you can't just work your way there you need to inherit not only wealth but also contacts, a certain confidence and way of being in the world, having a private education for example.

My DH and I do ok but we live a pretty modest lifestyle and when I look at all the things most kids seem to do now like all the various lessons, extra curricular activates, tutoring it seems very out of reach. Not to mention the odd holiday abroad access to cultural activities that would help them to fit in once at university if they went. I know these things do matter because I went to university not having ever been abroad and in many instances though I knew what a word meant I would get the pronunciation wrong because I'd never heard it said aloud prior to being a uni. Those deficits marked me out as different, and I was ridiculed for my accent and I never quite fitted in (perhaps a feature of the university I went to where most were from very wealthy backgrounds).

I've seen other working class, university educated people who don't quite fit in anywhere go on to have kids who also don't quite fit in anywhere and I feel like if I could buy my kids what I didn't have though a private education or some other means then I might think of it but I just feel like its getting harder and harder for people to maintain what they have and that any gaps for meritocracy as closing up.

I just see a very bleak future where few make it and those that will probably have generations of wealth behind them and for those that don't I think life will probably be pretty miserable mired in debt, subscription fees, poor healthcare and little hope of having a secure home or even children of their own. That is even before I consider the environmental disaster that awaits us and future generations.

I just feel sometimes like its kinder not to have them.

things get a bit scaled-down

How much do you earn? I can’t imagine two grads from a posh university have tiny household income.

It feels like you're overthinking this.

I do realise that, but for me, the appearance of success is everything. I dream of having a beautiful daughter who will do ballet as I did as a teen, but actually make a career of it. Or failing that, make some kind of mark in the world. I am a person who cares a lot about material things and appearances, and sometimes I think that is maybe not the best way to bring up a child.

You're right, it would be awful for a child to have a parent with your attitude.

I come from a poor background and we are financially very comfortable now so it's not impossible - all of our money has come from DH's salary (I'm a sahm) or investment gains. We've never had any help from family.

We have 2 dc who both enjoy all the things you mention - private school, lots of extracurriculars, regular holidays and trips out. I have to admit I would have taken the same position as you if we weren't comfortably off - I wouldn't have wanted to try to raise dc without a lot of financial slack, because those extras do make a difference to quality of life and it's better not to be constantly stressed about money. You do have time to bring your salaries/capital up to the required level though - we didn't have dcs until late 30s.

I read a lot about the cost of living crisis and the challenges in state schools, and I'm so glad I'm not worrying about that.

I actually think it's important to think carefully about having children but it's a shame that you seem to be thinking oŃnly about the material side. For instance, you and your husband are good role models for breaking stereotypes abkut who will . As others have said, most children don't have private tutoring and go on exotic holidays. They still live happy and productive lives.

Maybe if people put more thought into having kids there would be less constant drama's and social workers, fostering needed

I’m sorry you feel this way, OP.

Any kids you have will have 2 university-educated parents who (presumably) know enough to teach them all the things you felt you didn’t know growing up.

Where you buy a house doesn’t matter to any potential theoretical children. It matters to you, though, and you should try to get some help unpicking how you can be happier in yourself.

It’s a classic quote for a reason: comparison is the thief of joy.

I wonder if the issue here is that you haven't yet found your own social group. Your expectations of what's needed for kids to have a decent life reflect the lifestyle of the top couple of percent, not most people who are graduates from decent universities. I also went to Oxbridge, from a modest background (parents both teachers, father from strongly WC family). At uni I had friends from a lot of backgrounds, but because we all basically lived in the same accommodation and did the same hobbies, it kind of plastered over class differences. After uni it became clearer that a lot of my uni friends were from a totally different social class and now have a totally different income level and lifestyle, and I simply drifted away from them. Now in my mid-40s, I have made new friends from work and various activities, and they are much more similar to me: people who went to good universities, have decent professional jobs, generally pinched and scraped for a few years out of uni with no parental help, and are now comfortable but don't have extra cash to throw around. Most importantly, I don't feel like the odd one out in this group.

The same applies for kids: in my friendship group we have similar values and lifestyles. None of the kids go to private school. They maybe have one lesson or paid activity outside school. Holidays are budget options - camping or maybe a weekend in an airbnb - or swapping houses with friends. Restaurants are an occasional treat. We set an example for our kids by saving for the things that most matter to us and showing that fun and "treats" don't have to be expensive. DC are confident and happy, and so are we :)

Sounds like you need new friends.

This wouldn't even occur to me.

I find this inferiority complex about not being wealthy so weird. I'm a single mum living in social housing with not a penny to my name and I don't care. Doesn't make me a bad person and I'm secure enough not to care what others think. DS is the same. We don't have a bad life either just because we're not wealthy.

I dont think kids will notice this dilemma unless you taught them to..

I had the opposite, i grew up pretty wealthy. My mum went on a course to retrain and made friends with a single mum trying hard to provide single handedly. I would go over to where they lived (on an estate) i LOVED it.

I didnt notice difference in houses, i mean i went in my friends room and living room, i didnt go around every room to work out how many rooms were upstairs and if they were doubles. I just saw a wonderful homely home, where everything felt loving. I was a bit jealous that she had so many friends on the estate and could go park and play after school. (Living in the big house rurally has no play parks and no other kids around) it was always fun and always things to do and people around.

Now we are grown up, having tutors and opportunities didnt mean a thing. Her mum working hard rubbed off and she is a professional photographer who went to uni..

Its how you raise the kids and the childs personality at the end of the day.

Obviously money can make it easier but it doesnt define who a person is.

(Some of the kids in my private school are bums now dont think thats down to poverty)

Also i didnt go to uni, i did an apprenticeship, no amount of money can make someone suddenly academic if they aren't.

I think it's commendable that you're thinking of these things. I don't think money is everything but I do wish people would actually think about various aspects when choosing to have children, rather than just because they want to. Having children is inherently selfish

A lot of things you can do to enrich a child's life can be done without spending a lot. You are university educated yourself, you'll have a wealth of skills and experience to pass on and are starting from a better base than many.

Your mindset is quite negative.

Sometimes you need to reframe your own experience. For our grandparents generation even remaining in education until 16 arguably should have put them far ahead of their parents, the reality is the change was across the whole population so the relative impact is not there. University education is the same for children of the 80s, it has become so widespread its lost its value adding capacity.

It feels like you expected more/faster social mobility from your experience. In reality social mobility only really occurs when you rise relative to the rest of your generational cohort and generally its a) rare, b) slow, and happens over several generations.

I think your overthinking things and letting your experience cloud your judgement here.

Very exact same background here except with single parent. My main goal for my own family is stability and security in a strong and stable marriage because I didn't have that. It's the biggest privilege you can give your children.

All that other stuff I don't think is an issue. I was the first in my family to go to uni and have a very northern accent, I didn't find it an issue. My DH was the same. Anyways we live in a different area now so the kids have different accents.

We haven't and won't inherit any wealth but have and are continuing to build successful careers and financially comfortable now. But apart from extra curricular activities like swimming lessons and scouts, we don't have the need for private tutors etc. There is nothing wrong with a family staycation rather than abroad. We've done this lots.

We did wait until we were in our 30s to have DV however so we could afford a large enough house, maternity leave etc.

I kinda feel the same..i am also from working class background, went to uni when older, got masters. Im in a good job, i luckily had my child (now 32) .. when i was 17. I don't think i would have had any children if i waited later in life. I love children but see poverty, injustice for people in poverty, how people have to fight for everything, bringing children up in such an uncaring selfish world etc...but...my daughter is well rounded, always worked and now has her own kids. I class myself as very lucky no matter my odd negativity 😊

What is it you do for a job? Surely with a masters degree you have to potential to advance in your career and earn more if that is all that’s holding you back? Could you move to a cheaper part of the country if housing costs are particularly high where you are?

I grew up skint so did DH, DD goes to a nice private school, the idea that you have to inherit wealth is ridiculous. Yes of course it makes your life easier but it’s not the be all and end all. Plus we are ethnic minorities so y’know a little bit harder.

Dh works with someone who must be earning multiples of what he does (think close to six figures net) and he grew up on a rough estate (he wasn’t a nerd either, he is just very good at something specific and works hard) It’s utterly defeatist to think you can only progress if you went to private school, most of us didn’t most of the people your hypothetical child would meet wouldn’t have either.

I keep ending up talking to people who are going skiing for some reason, no I don’t ski and I don’t feel bad about it. Whats to feel ashamed of, we had different life experiences. I don’t feel inferior at all.

You can choose to not have kids for any reason at all but this sounds like perfectionism to me. I won’t do it if it’s not perfect. As someone with an actual child nothing is ever perfect, mainly it’s lumbering from one problem to another or one thing on a giant list of things to do to another.

OP, it's fine not to have kids for any reason you like, including worrying about whether you'll be able to give them the life you'd like to give them.

Move to a more affordable area (they do exist) and there are nice areas all over the UK which are affordable. Make new friends. Then reassess. You are living your life wishing it was different. It can be. You have to change your life to achieve this. Then decide if children are for you.

Life has always been unfair and each generation thinks theirs has had it the worst.

Agree that it's fine not to have dc - more people should make that choice.

I disagree that you need a set level of material wealth to have joie de vivre . Yesterday teen dd and I wandered around Aldi after school, cooked and watched TV together, so nothing special, but we talked and joked and were perfectly happy just being ordinary. You don't need to always fling money at life.

Noone has to have children and your reasons as good as any

But even in my expensive bit of surrey there are plenty of children who have never been abroad, dont have tutoring, and their extra curriculars are cheap like cubs, or the local brass band is free. They are living full happy lives.

University isnt compulsory. For some people its a great return on investment - it opens up a career they find rewarding and sometimes one that pays better. But there are other options.

You are obviously surrounded by people who have private school, travel and all the trimmings but there are plenty of happy people with less.

My DDs class has everything: small flats to massive houses, single parents on carers allowance, two doctor families, two families from Ukraine staying in spare rooms and the families with the spare rooms. The friendships have nothing to do with money and status, neither does how happy these kids are.

It's a perfectly valid choice not to have children, but it is sad to make a decision you might regret based on a false premise that might not be true. Look about a bit more, there are more ways to live than the bubble you grew up in and the one you're in now.

Way too many people have way too many children without any thought at all of the financial aspect. I disagree that love, food and shelter is enough. Imo, that's the bare minimum and if you don't have the money to give your child a reasonable upbringing (with very good education and mind opening experiences) you shouldn't have children.

Kids don’t need private school. If you didn’t have enough money to feed them, then that would be something to think about. But only 6 % of the UK population go to private school. Do you really think 94% of British children are living bleak and worthless lives?

No. You have a good education and you value cultural capital. You can take them to museums and libraries and forests and historic churches and teach them about the world without spending lots of money.