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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friend ate and drank more at dinner to get even

94 replies

flyingdonkey · 09/12/2023 15:30

Friend and I meet every now and then over dinner or drinks.
I think they live above their means, and spend their money on fancy experiences whilst they struggle with living up to desired standards in their personal lives.
In the past I've picked the entire tab or gone Dutch with them. A few months ago, I paid fully for dinner and then said they can pay next time we're out as they have never paid in full for us both. Since then, months passed where we couldn't meet one-on-one (we've met in between with wider groups of friends) because friend always said they were busy with one thing or the other.
Now months passed, friend suggested we see a movie and have dinner. They booked movie tickets for £X and I said I will pay for dinner.
I didn't think much of it.
When we went to dinner, the menu was fairly cheap; we settled for certain foods on the menu. However, in the middle of taking our order, friend changed their mind and ordered for a more expensive food and wine.
When the waiter left, they then said that it's okay as it now means that I'm paying for food equivalent to the £X they'd paid for movie tickets.
I felt they were being calculative and sly.
A few hours later, they wanted another glass of wine and I offered to pay for it and they then objected saying it'll mean we're no longer even. I said it was ok and paid anyway. This meant they now spent £X on movie tickets and I spent £X+30 on food. I told them that there's more to life than trying to be even as it slowly dawned on me that they purposely nudged me to a cheaper food so they can have more expensive food and wine covered within their mental calculation of how to stay even.
When I got home, all the memories then flooded back in relation to how I'm the one who took them to a fully paid dinner the last time and how perhaps cunningly they allowed months to pass before we can meet again and then took the lead on suggesting and paying movies this time so they don't have to pay for food in full.
AIBU to think they're too calculative and I should see them less and make myself unavailable for all these expensive meet-ups they are always suggesting or even just not see them anymore! I woke up this morning thinking I really don't need a drainer in my life. I really could do with saving my money for my future goals, not leading a pretentious lifestyle.

OP posts:
ShinyCaptain · 09/12/2023 18:19

You both sound very calculating and not at all nice.

Stiritscrapeitmakeitbakeit · 09/12/2023 18:24

flyingdonkey · 09/12/2023 15:41

Thank you. I'm going to be scarce and individualistic going forward.

What on Earth does this actually mean?

Otherwise: the MN friendship dramas never cease to amaze me.

Ghentsummer · 09/12/2023 18:25

A cinema ticket is typically £10-£15, how was her dinner and a glass of wine ever below that?

Original poster
flyingdonkey · 09/12/2023 18:26

dooneyousmugelf · 09/12/2023 18:00

Oh is it really that deep, OP? The food and drink must've been a bargain at least, if it price matched 2 cinema tickets.

I use the word movies because I don't want to be specific with what we were doing as it could be outing. It was an activity in the arts that'd be similar to going to the movies.
The food they recommended was £90 for both. When they'd changed their mind whilst our order was being taken, they switched it up so that the order now came up to £150 to be in line with the money they'd spent on tickets. And to be very clear, when they said they'd booked tickets, I didn't dig into how much they paid. I just said I'll take care of dinner. So, when dinner came up to £90, I didn't really think whether it was fair to me pt them. I was just thinking here is my wonderful friend who's arranged a nice evening at the movies. And I'm in turn covering out dinner. It was when they switched the order and made it clear that it was making us even that I first became aware that we are in a tit-for-tat meet up.
When they wanted somethings extra, I didn't mind paying £30 extra as I had already paid £150, so what's the difference in the big scheme and I wasn't thinking quick enough to take a different line of action? I had said I will cover dinner, it didn't matter if they wanted extra things at any point. I just didn't like the calculative aspect.

OP posts:
Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 18:35

AIBU to think they're too calculative and I should see them less and make myself unavailable for all these expensive meet-ups they are always suggesting or even just not see them anymore! I woke up this morning thinking I really don't need a drainer in my life. I really could do with saving my money for my future goals, not leading a pretentious lifestyle.

OP, you can continue to meet them as much or as little as you like, but just ensure you each pay for what you have eaten then split the tip or whatever. Simple.

You really didn’t need to insist you’d pay for her drink.

It’s possible she was being a bit sly but it is what it is. Some people are like that and don’t mind eating out at others expense. It’s not great but it’s also probably nothing personal. I wouldn’t overthink it. If she’s given you the “ick” though it’s best to go your separate ways rather than dragging out a friendship with underlying resentment and mistrust on both sides!

FWIW I have a childhood friend who always expected me to pick up the bill and after several years when the penny finally dropped, I just stopped. It hasn’t changed our friendship or the frequency of our meet up, it just means when the waiter asks “how do you two want to pay?” and she stays quiet and looks at me, I pipe up and say “we are paying separately”. 😆

DoubleTime · 09/12/2023 18:36

OP in your initial post about meetings before this, you said that when you met your friend you picked up the entire tab or you went Dutch - why were you picking up the whole tab sometimes ?

chillin12 · 09/12/2023 18:43

@Biscofffans
It’s possible she was being a bit sly but it is what it is. Some people are like that and don’t mind eating out at others expense. It’s not great but it’s also probably nothing personal.

Do you not find this behaviour inconsiderate? It a a conscious decision and screams self entitlement that some people think they deserve more money being spent on them, than they would on their friends. Personally, I’d feel wayyyy to embarrassed and shy to let someone consistently spend on me, without reciprocating.

riceuten · 09/12/2023 18:45

There's some deep seated insecurity on their part present, to be honest

Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 18:55

chillin12 · 09/12/2023 18:43

@Biscofffans
It’s possible she was being a bit sly but it is what it is. Some people are like that and don’t mind eating out at others expense. It’s not great but it’s also probably nothing personal.

Do you not find this behaviour inconsiderate? It a a conscious decision and screams self entitlement that some people think they deserve more money being spent on them, than they would on their friends. Personally, I’d feel wayyyy to embarrassed and shy to let someone consistently spend on me, without reciprocating.

yeah i think it is inconsiderate and selfish. Overall it isn’t a good character trait which is why I stated “it isn’t great”. I also find it super weird that these people are so comfortable not to reciprocate. They lack shame lol

What I was also saying is she probably unfortunately treats a lot of her friends like this if she can get away with it . Not saying it’s OK but just saying OP’s not necessarily being targeted.

Basically yes OP should put a stop to it - like I did in my own situation . At one point I took it a bit personally and was annoyed as I mulled over it in lockdown, but then I just decide to view it as a “them problem” and shrugged it off. I don’t let them take advantage anymore though.

Sometimes people like that do have some redeeming qualities although some are just there to use you . You find if people are only around to drain you, they’ll fade out from your life anyway once you stop paying for them.

Walkaround · 09/12/2023 19:03

@flyingdonkey - it seems to me you were starting to mistrust your friend last time you saw them, if you said explicitly to them that next time you wanted them to pay for the meal because they had never paid for both your meals themselves. It is likely they were upset by your tone and the implication that they have never paid their way in your friendship, and decided that from now on, you should both keep an eye on what the other was spending and both make that explicit. If you want to retain a friendship, I suggest you always share costs equally in future, to take the stress off both of you, now that neither of you trusts the other’s motives any more - but don’t forget, it was you who quantified what each of you had done for the other first.

chillin12 · 09/12/2023 19:04

Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 18:55

yeah i think it is inconsiderate and selfish. Overall it isn’t a good character trait which is why I stated “it isn’t great”. I also find it super weird that these people are so comfortable not to reciprocate. They lack shame lol

What I was also saying is she probably unfortunately treats a lot of her friends like this if she can get away with it . Not saying it’s OK but just saying OP’s not necessarily being targeted.

Basically yes OP should put a stop to it - like I did in my own situation . At one point I took it a bit personally and was annoyed as I mulled over it in lockdown, but then I just decide to view it as a “them problem” and shrugged it off. I don’t let them take advantage anymore though.

Sometimes people like that do have some redeeming qualities although some are just there to use you . You find if people are only around to drain you, they’ll fade out from your life anyway once you stop paying for them.

Show quote history

I think it’s great you decided to acknowledge it and put a stop, finally. And you make good points. I have a friend like this, for years, I’d consistently treat her to meals etc, and didn’t keep count of pennies. I simply enjoyed it as an act of “love,” even tho I was a student and had less money than her 😂 but then, not once did she ever care to treat me and let me pay numerous times. I was a doormat in the past, and felt too shy to argue over money matters. It did come to a head once, and she improved. Some people are thoughtless. She pays her own way better now.

The thing is, someone selfish with money in friendship, is also selfish in thinking their time and convenience is more important than yours, in my experiences anyway. This was still an ongoing issue, therefore, I have a lot of resentment built up, and have just now maintained distance. There are redeeming qualities, and I haven’t ended the friendship or made an issue. I am more firm now if things come up, but just chose to keep more of a distance, as we don’t live in the same area anymore so barely meet up anymore.

10HailMarys · 09/12/2023 19:06

You don’t like them. You don’t have to be friends with them.

Walkaround · 09/12/2023 19:06

Actually, no, don’t share costs equally, just pay your fair share - if they want a more expensive meal, they pay more. It makes life so much simpler.

SuspiciousSue · 09/12/2023 19:07

It’s not up to me to tell you whether to see them or not. However, if you do, from now on make sure you ask the waiter for a separate bill from the outset. The ‘friend’ may comment but if they do then that’s their issue. Also, I wouldn’t get into rounds. Just buy your own.

Original poster
flyingdonkey · 09/12/2023 19:07

DoubleTime · 09/12/2023 18:36

OP in your initial post about meetings before this, you said that when you met your friend you picked up the entire tab or you went Dutch - why were you picking up the whole tab sometimes ?

Edited

I picked up the tab because I used to earn significantly more than them and at the time, lots of our meetings were mostly about them, for example, they're feeling low and the meet-up is to cheer them up, or they just want to be celebrated. My friend likes to be celebrated. They are the kind that celebrate every little thing and they demand to the celebrated. They make it clear that they want it and follow up by giving dates for the meet-up to celebrate them.
I love them and in all honestly, I feel that I was learning from their outlook on life. The way I saw it was that I am a glass half empty person and I have this friend who sees it half full.
However, I switched jobs and took a significant pay cut, and we began earning similar salaries. I discussed with them how I'm reviewing my finances and can't pick the big tabs always so we went Dutch a few times. But in between, there are the 'celebrate me' meet-ups where I pick the full tab because the day is about them. We come from upbringings where going Dutch is a rarity. So, we then had this conversation to just try to do things from the heart. As I tend to call for coffee meet-ups, and I didn't mind paying in full.
They started to call for more expensive activities. My birthday was the only time that I made it clear it'd be their turn next and they became unavailable since then.

OP posts:
GrumpyPanda · 09/12/2023 19:09

Next time, tell her she still owes you one dinner and make her pay. Thereafter each just pay for their own.

tachetastic · 09/12/2023 19:10

flyingdonkey · 09/12/2023 15:30

Friend and I meet every now and then over dinner or drinks.
I think they live above their means, and spend their money on fancy experiences whilst they struggle with living up to desired standards in their personal lives.
In the past I've picked the entire tab or gone Dutch with them. A few months ago, I paid fully for dinner and then said they can pay next time we're out as they have never paid in full for us both. Since then, months passed where we couldn't meet one-on-one (we've met in between with wider groups of friends) because friend always said they were busy with one thing or the other.
Now months passed, friend suggested we see a movie and have dinner. They booked movie tickets for £X and I said I will pay for dinner.
I didn't think much of it.
When we went to dinner, the menu was fairly cheap; we settled for certain foods on the menu. However, in the middle of taking our order, friend changed their mind and ordered for a more expensive food and wine.
When the waiter left, they then said that it's okay as it now means that I'm paying for food equivalent to the £X they'd paid for movie tickets.
I felt they were being calculative and sly.
A few hours later, they wanted another glass of wine and I offered to pay for it and they then objected saying it'll mean we're no longer even. I said it was ok and paid anyway. This meant they now spent £X on movie tickets and I spent £X+30 on food. I told them that there's more to life than trying to be even as it slowly dawned on me that they purposely nudged me to a cheaper food so they can have more expensive food and wine covered within their mental calculation of how to stay even.
When I got home, all the memories then flooded back in relation to how I'm the one who took them to a fully paid dinner the last time and how perhaps cunningly they allowed months to pass before we can meet again and then took the lead on suggesting and paying movies this time so they don't have to pay for food in full.
AIBU to think they're too calculative and I should see them less and make myself unavailable for all these expensive meet-ups they are always suggesting or even just not see them anymore! I woke up this morning thinking I really don't need a drainer in my life. I really could do with saving my money for my future goals, not leading a pretentious lifestyle.

I wouldn't change anything except next time you go out I would pay for my own meal and expect them to do the same. Or else go Dutch but try to order roughly the same value meal as them. There is no need to count down to the penny.

I always hated the "I buy this meal you buy the next one" for the opposite reason, as I always felt obliged to order the pasta when they were paying even though I really fancied the steak. Much easier to pay your own way.

flowerchild2000 · 09/12/2023 19:10

There are givers and takers in life and if you're mismatched you'll go dry.

Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 19:13

And just to add @flyingdonkey I think you mentioned your friend has a partner?. I don’t know what her partner is like obviously but the two friends I had that were similar to your friend, both had partners who were quite stingy. Neither of their partners ever treated them or picked up the tab. Even on Valentine’s Day/ birthdays etc.

I know I said not to overthink so I’m perhaps contradicting myself but IMO sometimes people like that can take it out on their friends if they’re not getting what they need from their partner.

That is of course a random (possible) explanation - not an excuse.

I definitely am not suggesting any woman should pay the price for their friend sticking with a substandard partner.

Original poster
flyingdonkey · 09/12/2023 19:28

Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 19:13

And just to add @flyingdonkey I think you mentioned your friend has a partner?. I don’t know what her partner is like obviously but the two friends I had that were similar to your friend, both had partners who were quite stingy. Neither of their partners ever treated them or picked up the tab. Even on Valentine’s Day/ birthdays etc.

I know I said not to overthink so I’m perhaps contradicting myself but IMO sometimes people like that can take it out on their friends if they’re not getting what they need from their partner.

That is of course a random (possible) explanation - not an excuse.

I definitely am not suggesting any woman should pay the price for their friend sticking with a substandard partner.

Useful perspective.
I haven't thought about it that way.
Their partner goes Dutch with them on everything even if they planned a birthday or holiday surprise for my friend for example, the expense is taken out of their joint pot. I've been to coffee with them where the partner paid for his coffee and my friend paid for theirs separately.

OP posts:
everybluesock · 09/12/2023 19:30

Just always split the bill. Fixed.

Dolly567 · 09/12/2023 19:31

They're taking advantage
Just say we can split the bills from now on

Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 19:37

chillin12 · 09/12/2023 19:04

I think it’s great you decided to acknowledge it and put a stop, finally. And you make good points. I have a friend like this, for years, I’d consistently treat her to meals etc, and didn’t keep count of pennies. I simply enjoyed it as an act of “love,” even tho I was a student and had less money than her 😂 but then, not once did she ever care to treat me and let me pay numerous times. I was a doormat in the past, and felt too shy to argue over money matters. It did come to a head once, and she improved. Some people are thoughtless. She pays her own way better now.

The thing is, someone selfish with money in friendship, is also selfish in thinking their time and convenience is more important than yours, in my experiences anyway. This was still an ongoing issue, therefore, I have a lot of resentment built up, and have just now maintained distance. There are redeeming qualities, and I haven’t ended the friendship or made an issue. I am more firm now if things come up, but just chose to keep more of a distance, as we don’t live in the same area anymore so barely meet up anymore.

Show quote history

Yes, your situation sounds very much like mine. I did it out of love as well, I certainly didn’t have a lot of spare cash but she wasn’t working although her partner was doing casual work. And between all the benefits they received they probably had more disposable income than me who was single working full time living in a London flatshare.

I kind of justified it at the time, that she had kids to spend on. But now I see it all differently and I just couldn’t accept such a friendship any longer.

I agree there are wider implications of someone who is selfish with money in friendship. She would also show selfishness by trauma dumping on me even when she knew I was quietly struggling with my own stuff.

At some point it does make you wonder how much they value you as a person, so I can understand the resentment.

I think for my own sanity, I just decided to view it all as a personal failing on her part and an important lesson for myself. I also came to the realisation I allowed this for so long as I was still a bit of a people pleaser, which is something I thought I’d grown out of in childhood. We can’t control others so I just looked inward more and worked on myself.

Definitely good that you’ve taken a step back and given yourself the distance from her you need.

Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 19:55

flyingdonkey · 09/12/2023 19:28

Useful perspective.
I haven't thought about it that way.
Their partner goes Dutch with them on everything even if they planned a birthday or holiday surprise for my friend for example, the expense is taken out of their joint pot. I've been to coffee with them where the partner paid for his coffee and my friend paid for theirs separately.

Show quote history

Interesting! My ‘theory’ may be correct then lol the way I see it if you don’t demand of your own partner to pick up the tab for coffee, or treat you on your birthday you have no business expecting me as a female friend to pay a dinner bill to ‘celebrate’ you.

I have little patience for women who don’t speak up for themselves with male partners, to get the treatment they desire, but instead try and treat their female friends like mugs to compensate.

Yeah definitely don’t pay for her ever again lol

SweetSmellingBlackberryStone · 09/12/2023 20:01

They sound scheming, yes, but any chance the whole 'trying to be even' is in response to what you said at the last meal? Although, really it should have in that case been them that paid them split it the next time.

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