To ask if your parents also do this...

[seenisambol]

I grew up in a zero tolerance home environment. If my brother or I broke the rules (e.g. the living room was messy, we'd forgotten to empty the dishwasher) we'd be met with shouting and aggression and we'd end up in our bedrooms in tears. I remember when my brother was 11 he broke a lamp and cried for 3 hours before my dad got home as he was so worried about what he'd do.

I've had a good relationship with my parents ever since I left home 20 years ago. They're also now retired and far less stressed, which I think was a big part of the problem.

However one thing I really struggle with is their selective memory of my childhood. There's been times when I or my brother have referred to a minor incident (we would never talk about the really bad ones) and they say things like "What?! Don't be ridiculous!" or "I'd never say something like that! If I did then that's awful".

Has anyone else experienced this? Have they really blanked out everything that happened? Or are they too embarrassed to talk about it? This wasn't just one or two incidents, this was the backdrop of my childhood so I find it so hard to understand how they could have no memory of it.

I've never understood why people get so cross about breakages and spillages etc

Mine do occasionally. My dad could get very angry. He once slapped me across the face, hard for being cheeky.

My little brother was about 9 and was cheeky to my mum at a family get together and my dad pulled his pants down in front of everyone and smacked his bare bottom. It was so humiliating for him as everyone saw EVERYTHING.

But according to the olds, it never happened …

Not all parents are " abusers" some genuinely did not have the resources or have MH issues themselves . Some parents now have very little resources and money and are struggling even harder with MH and to give their children what they need. it does not make them abusers.

I'll agree it's dismissive, but I'm not the one doing the dismissing, the abuser is.

I can remember every single time I've shouted at DD, precisely because I can count them on one hand. (And I've just asked DD how many times I've shouted at her, and she remembered less than me, so I don't think it's my mind playing tricks)

But if you're shouting at your kids every day, then it stops being specific events, it's just part of your daily routine. How much of your daily routine do you remember a day, a week, a year, 20 years later?

Acknowledging that doesn't dismiss that it happened, arguably it makes it worse. The abusers don't remember it because to them, it wasn't worth remembering. It wasn't wrong, or abnormal to them, it was just day to day life.

Get up, wash teeth, make breakfast, yell at the kids...

It's nice you have so much stuff that you don't notice when it gets spoilt or broken, you are very fortunate. It's not like that for everyone and it certainly certainly wasn't back in the day. Accidents happen but when people (or children or teens or young adults) cause more spillages/breakages/mess by being careless or by repeatedly ignoring instructions (don't put your drink on the edge of the table, no ball games in the house, if you spill it clear it up etc) then it is frustrating and (depending on the age of the child) disrespectful.

Out of interest @Bobbotgegrinch how many children do you have?

Just the one, DD, 16. Why?

Just because people don’t have the resources or have mental health issues doesn’t mean it’s not incredibly damaging. The impact is still the same at the time and the blatant denial of it is abusive now. If they don’t remember, that’s their problem and they should acknowledge that they weren’t the perfect parents they claim to be.

Having MH issues or not having much money does not not excuse poor behaviour. There are plenty of children from poor backgrounds who grow up surrounded by love and being treated well.

Nor does it excuse refusing to accept it happened or apologise for it.

Your friends probably knew they'd get a mild response. Children act out more when interacting with their "safe" people. It doesn't sound like you were able to view your parents that way.

So you even have confirmation from your brother that you're remembering correctly. It's them, not you.
It was understanding my mother's complete denial of anything less than perfect and lovely in my childhood that introduced me to the term "gaslighting".
She used to deny my feelings about things (invalidation) and insist that things that I know happened, didn't (gaslighting, an extreme form of invalidation). A counsellor helped me see all this and recognise that my mother had built an alternative reality for herself, one she preferred to the truth.
Like a PP's mum she used to say sarcastically "oh yes I was such a terrible mother wasn't I?" In her mind she had been loving and perfect at all times.
I strongly disagree with PPs who suggest all parents do this. It's very abnormal. There's no way on earth I'll invalidate my kids' feelings.

Agree fully with all of this.

My DPs weren't perfect, well still aren't. I posted a fairly innocuous thing about one of them on a different thread recently and someone jumped straight in to tell me my DPs are "toxic". I think people often can judge their DPs so harshly. I try to think about how I hope my DC are with me as adults, I'm not perfect, I'm a product of my own experience and culture and so on. I try my best, I'm sure I make mistakes, sometimes I'm not even sure what is best to do and Im sure they will look back as adults and question or disagree with some of my decisions just as I do with my DPs. But I hope they can see me for who I am and that I've tried my best, as I know my DPs did (and still do), I hope they can give me grace as I do to my DPs. And as an adult I have some memories of childhood that were painful for me but for the most part as an adult now I can see them in context better and even where I think with reflection actually that wasn't gold standard parenting - well I know I don't parent to gold standard all of the time myself and my kids are only very young still.

If your child broke a lamp and is crying for 3 hours before you get home because they’re worried about what you’ll do because you’re shouty and aggressive then you’e abusive.

There is no excuse for the behaviour outlined in the OP.

Tacotortoise, it's not about how much stuff I have, I just do not attach too much weight to possessions and objects - possibly because i come from a poor background, i've just never been into stuff in that way, I prefer experiences, so if one if my kids spills or breaks stuff, I do not get angry

@Allfur that's fine. My mum was also from a poor background. She'd say when there are only 4 plates and money is tight, it's important not to break them.

Mine definitely have selective memories although not of anything terrible that happened, but big things I'm surprised they don't remember.

I know I haven't always been the best parent and acknowledge this and will always acknowledge this if my children ever bring it up. No one is perfect and most of us do our best.

As I've got older I've really questioned how/why I do some things and have realised there is no logic to them at all and I've just done it because my parents did. I've realised that some of those things are quite controlling or maybe even abusive (always 'guiding' my children on what to spend their money on, sulking when someone has annoyed me). I've then realised I just did what my parents did (and can see this came from their own parents). I never saw these things as a problem as I never felt I had an abusive childhood or anything, but I've come to realise you don't have to have an abusive childhood to carry on parenting techniques that aren't great!

The book 'the book you wish your parents had read and your children will thank you for reading' (or something like that) is VERY insightful. I can only hope I've managed to break some of the patterns passed down in my family.

Also I don't have much worth breaking

Yes it can be damaging but it is not intentional abuse . Some believe they had a terrible child hood because parents didn't have enough money for clothes , food etc which led to neglect .some children had physical / emotional/ sexual harm . The first however is not abuse . I myself had all of them but my mum not having enough money or resources for me was not abuse.

Why are you so bent on excusing the OP’s parents? Why are you obfuscating the issue with money for clothes and food when the OP hasn’t posted that? She posted about her brother who was 11 and broke a lamp and cried for 3 hours before her dad got home as he was so worried about what he'd do because his dad was aggressive.

Yes and the OPs parent was an intentional abuser. I'm not excusing any posters experience or the OPs . My post was not even aimed at the OP . My post was a generalisation based on a pp highlighted that many people are throwing around the term toxic or abusive . I also based my post on my own experience.

My mother was from an extremely rich background, and had a huge family that gave her plenty of support, even after she'd had 3 children...and I'm not talking about just babysitting here, I mean buying cars and giving house deposits support...which wasn't that usual back in the early 1970s.

So as far as I'm concerned, there was no justification for her behaving the way she did/does. I've had it confirmed from 4 medical professionals that what my parents put me and my brothers through as children was abusive, so I think I'll take their expert opinions over online people desperate to persuade me otherwise , thanks.

Yep you completely ignored the OP and used another poster’s post to ignore the fact that what OP posted was abusive.

And that poster said her home was ‘Lots of shouting and screaming. Smacking. Guilt trips’ but that ‘“toxic” is thrown around too often’. If she doesn’t see that as toxic then I dread the home life she gives her own dc.

I agree with @FreeRider It took professional help for me to identify and name what I'd been through . There's too many armchair specialists on MN .

It's interesting to reflect on the question of whether or not this was abuse. This discussion has really highlighted how much memories vary and how something seemingly harmless and forgettable to a parent can be emotionally scarring to a child. It's also interesting to question your own recollections to understand how much they may have evolved over time. Did my brother cry for 3 hours? For 2? It certainly feels like a long time in my memory.

I think that's why it's disconcerting when a parent has a completely different version of history from you as you're just piecing together pieces of a puzzle. I remember listening out for the way my dad would shut the door behind him when he came in from work to gauge what kind of mood he was in. If it was a slam I would start running around tidying the house so he didn't get angry. Is that abuse or just a function of an extremely overworked, overtired person? I don't know.

You are mention the OP then you are stating " and then that poster said " I really have idea what you are talking about .

Please don't try to explain I'm really not that invested in your opinion .I only came on the thread as my mum and myself suffered because of my dads neglect .