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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

It's never OK for a teacher to tell a pupil they love them, is it?

61 replies

BippityBopper · 08/12/2023 19:35

I was watching the film, Precious, on ITV X the other day...

Spolier Alert
Precious breaks down in her alternative school class and lashes out at the teacher. She comes from a background of severe sexual abuse, physical assault, and neglect. She birthed two children from her father. She'd opened up that she recently found she has HIV. She cries that nobody cares for her or loves her.

Her teacher tries to reassure a very broken Precious and tells her that her children love her, and then tells her that she (the teacher loves her). I was bawling like a baby watching this scene and I absolutely see the teacher's point of view for saying that. But in the real world, no artistic licence for a powerful film scene, it wouldn't be ok, would it? Especially because Precious is a vulnerable child.

I felt uncomfortable at the thought of any teacher telling either of my children they loved them. But the thing is, they come from a family surrounded by love. People DO love them. Would you have said it if you were Precious' teacher?

OP posts:
TomeTome · 08/12/2023 19:37

If I loved her I would have said so.

pinkfonie · 08/12/2023 19:38

No, given the circumstances it wasn't wrong I don't think. She probably didn't really love her but she was saying it in a powerful way.
I've not seen it by the way by to my god that sounds sad :-(

sprigatito · 08/12/2023 19:40

I had a couple of teachers say it to me. I was a very damaged and insecure kid in a small boarding school though, so they weren't the sort of teacher-pupil relationships my own children had with their teachers.

It's generally not appropriate, but context matters too. None of the teachers who said it to me were in the slightest bit dodgy or exploitative.

CityCommuter · 08/12/2023 19:41

@BippityBopper how old is Precious being as she's given birth to two children?

Tacotortoise · 08/12/2023 19:42

There are different types of love and context is everything.

2fast2upset · 08/12/2023 19:43

There are many different types of love.

I have worked with vulnerable children, who have said that no one loves them and have done a similar ‘me and all of the teachers at xyz school love you, your friends love you, your mum loves you.’ Is that weird?

I’ve written it on safeguarding reports as a running record of the entire interaction and I was never pulled for being exploitative or dodgy. 🤨

But this is all pointless really. your children hopefully won’t ever be in the position where they are so traumatised and their sense of worth is so low that they won’t need that reassurance that they are loved and they have worth.

Titicacacandle · 08/12/2023 19:44

You're right OP. You shouldn't tell people in that position that you love them. It sets a really unfair hope off in that person that you would then have to manage to have an appropriate work boundary with them.

You can say things like - I'm really happy to know you, you're a strong person, your children love you and others will too, it's rubbish right now but, etc. Then you work on supporting them to integrate into a community and have supportive and loving networks of people. It's really unfair to try to be that person as a professional as it's completely not fair on them to have that expectation that you will always be there for them when you won't.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 08/12/2023 19:44

I think it's a judgement call. Occasionally as a teacher you have to make a decision about whether bending the rules slightly, or doing something that wouldn't normally be very advisable, is worth it if it's of genuine benefit to a child. I don't mean things which are illegal or serious misconduct. In the context you describe I would be very tempted to tell her, but I might phrase it in a slightly different way, e.g. 'Teachers often feel a kind of caring love for their students, and I (and probably your other teachers) feel that way about you'.

BadSnips · 08/12/2023 19:44

My daughters teacher tells her she loves her. She's in high school and this particular teacher has supported DD through some awful stuff. There's nothing sinister behind it.
And I can honestly say I love the teacher. I do. She's made a massive difference in my daughters life, she's an amazing teacher and sometimes I wonder if my daughter would even be here if she didn't have her support in school.

I'm guessing people on MN, on the outside will say it's not appropriate, but I trust her 100% and if you knew the full circumstances of what DD disclosed to her and the aftermath the teacher has helped her through, I think people would understand.

sprigatito · 08/12/2023 19:46

2fast2upset · 08/12/2023 19:43

There are many different types of love.

I have worked with vulnerable children, who have said that no one loves them and have done a similar ‘me and all of the teachers at xyz school love you, your friends love you, your mum loves you.’ Is that weird?

I’ve written it on safeguarding reports as a running record of the entire interaction and I was never pulled for being exploitative or dodgy. 🤨

But this is all pointless really. your children hopefully won’t ever be in the position where they are so traumatised and their sense of worth is so low that they won’t need that reassurance that they are loved and they have worth.

Exactly; there are many forms of love - and children NEED love. If they are not getting any elsewhere then of course sometimes a teacher will step into the breach. If that teacher is a professional with rock-solid boundaries and emotional stability, it can be managed so that it's therapeutic rather than anything sinister.

squeekychicken · 08/12/2023 19:46

I think in these circumstances, the child needs someone in their life who loves them and believes in them!

CaptainMyCaptain · 08/12/2023 19:47

CityCommuter · 08/12/2023 19:41

@BippityBopper how old is Precious being as she's given birth to two children?

I can't remember exactly but she was very, very young.

I think the love being referred to is an all encompassing love and not sexual. Loving her as a valued human being. I was an Early Years teacher and sometimes children told me they loved me. My response was always 'and I love ALL of you'.

sprigatito · 08/12/2023 19:47

Titicacacandle · 08/12/2023 19:44

You're right OP. You shouldn't tell people in that position that you love them. It sets a really unfair hope off in that person that you would then have to manage to have an appropriate work boundary with them.

You can say things like - I'm really happy to know you, you're a strong person, your children love you and others will too, it's rubbish right now but, etc. Then you work on supporting them to integrate into a community and have supportive and loving networks of people. It's really unfair to try to be that person as a professional as it's completely not fair on them to have that expectation that you will always be there for them when you won't.

It's not always true that you won't be there, though. I am 46 and still friends with a couple of my teachers. Though I do accept that my school was a bit unusual.

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 08/12/2023 19:47

CityCommuter · 08/12/2023 19:41

@BippityBopper how old is Precious being as she's given birth to two children?

I think she’s 15 if I remember rightly.

Honestly in that setting (I think it’s a true story?) I don’t think it was inappropriate. The teacher ended up housing her and obviously cared deeply for her.
it was also 40 years ago with slightly different attitudes to safeguarding

Titicacacandle · 08/12/2023 19:48

It is inappropriate to set a vulnerable young person up to be 'rejected' again by someone who has told them they love them. It's not about bending the rules of professionalism, it's about managing someones attachment to you if you've told them you love them. It's easy to say you love someone to make them feel better, it's not helpful to the person in the long run and can make that person feel worse.

violetcuriosity · 08/12/2023 19:49

I work with children who have experienced trauma, I'm their assistant head teacher. I've been in this situation countless times with children who truthfully probably don't have anyone that loves them, at least not in a whole, healthy way. I would never tell them I love them, even though the care and affection I have for them may border that feeling, it isn't actual love. I wouldn't tell them that for the obvious safeguarding reasons but also because it would just be more evidence that love is something people can give and take, that is transient and something I would be able to withdraw when they are no longer in my care. I would then be someone else who has let them down. I do, however, tell them how special they are, how much I care about them and that they can trust me to do the right things for them, I tell them they can put their problems on me and I will carry those problems and make decisions for them- I will do all of the things that someone who loves them would do- but I will always make sure they know there is a professional boundary there.

CaptainMyCaptain · 08/12/2023 19:50

As a completely irrelevant aside, Mariah Carey plays the part of a social worker in that film.

Whattodo112222 · 08/12/2023 19:51

Its a true story.
In that situation, she needed to be told someone loved her.

sprigatito · 08/12/2023 19:51

Titicacacandle · 08/12/2023 19:48

It is inappropriate to set a vulnerable young person up to be 'rejected' again by someone who has told them they love them. It's not about bending the rules of professionalism, it's about managing someones attachment to you if you've told them you love them. It's easy to say you love someone to make them feel better, it's not helpful to the person in the long run and can make that person feel worse.

What if you genuinely do love them - in a parental, non-sinister way - and you don't intend to drop them once they leave school? I have several of those long-term friendships with my school teachers. They're great people and they mean a lot to me. No harm has been done to anyone.

Titicacacandle · 08/12/2023 19:57

sprigatito · 08/12/2023 19:51

What if you genuinely do love them - in a parental, non-sinister way - and you don't intend to drop them once they leave school? I have several of those long-term friendships with my school teachers. They're great people and they mean a lot to me. No harm has been done to anyone.

Show quote history

They cannot guarantee that they will be able to stay in that persons life. Even if they wanted to foster them (it does happen, people care about a vulnerable child who gets taken into care and they step up to foster them) then it would still be inappropriate until they've got a secure long term foster placement. It's an easy way out to make a child feel better when that person doesn't t have the tools to help them regulate their emotions.

Imagine being told you're loved by a trusted adult who you've attached to and then never being able to see that one person who told you they loved you. That child would have already created a fairy tale ending about the teacher being their family in their head once they heard that!

Okaaaay · 08/12/2023 20:08

Does it feel weird because, as adults, we equate love with intimacy and therefore it starts to feel seedy?

Agree that there are loads of types of love and context is absolutely everything here.

ManyATrueWord · 08/12/2023 20:10

In a C of E school you are meant to love everyone so I think there is something wrong with insisting all love,.all personal relationship feelings are sexual or inappropriate.

Original poster
BippityBopper · 08/12/2023 20:24

I think Precious is 16. In that scene, her youngest child was just a few months old.

Lots of great point of views. Particularly about it being inappropriate to tell a child they love them to make them feel better. I feel that's the problem. The scene made my heart bleed and it would be so easy to tell a child so desperate for love that you love them. But how many vulnerable children would take that and run with it? They then think that person can be relied upon for anything and go to them with every hardship/problem they face. She was just Precious' teacher (and seemed to do more for her than the social worker). I think boundaries do need to be drawn. Precious' teacher would have come across multiple girls like her and she can't be everything to everyone all the time.

But still, I see how it could easily be said. We are human. We are social beings and have empathy. It's made me think of all those who work with vulnerable children and do genuinely care. The ones who aren't ticking boxes, or worse, abusing their positions.

I appreciate It's very different to telling a run of the mill child that you love them. One that wouldn't need your love.

The film has really moved me as I know this is reality for many. The ending, although meant to be somewhat positive, was very sombre.

OP posts:
Dawndayda · 08/12/2023 20:43

A teacher once gave me a kiss in primary school when I was 6 years old.

If I said that on it's own then it might seem really bad and inappropriate, but as others have said, context matters. The reason why the teacher kissed me was because I had made a valentine's card for her son who had been in my class and left to go to a different school. She taught in another class and I asked if I could take it to her room and my own teacher let me, when I gave her it to give to him she welled up and gave me the biggest hug and a kiss. I told my mum later who only told me that it must have been a really nice card. Years later my mum told me that the teacher's son had actually been moved to a special school and had quite profound learning difficulties, as a young child I hadn't noticed and had no idea, he was just my friend and I missed him. I don't think there was anything wrong with what that teacher did because in that moment she was just being a mum, not a teacher.

Titicacacandle · 08/12/2023 20:48

Dawndayda · 08/12/2023 20:43

A teacher once gave me a kiss in primary school when I was 6 years old.

If I said that on it's own then it might seem really bad and inappropriate, but as others have said, context matters. The reason why the teacher kissed me was because I had made a valentine's card for her son who had been in my class and left to go to a different school. She taught in another class and I asked if I could take it to her room and my own teacher let me, when I gave her it to give to him she welled up and gave me the biggest hug and a kiss. I told my mum later who only told me that it must have been a really nice card. Years later my mum told me that the teacher's son had actually been moved to a special school and had quite profound learning difficulties, as a young child I hadn't noticed and had no idea, he was just my friend and I missed him. I don't think there was anything wrong with what that teacher did because in that moment she was just being a mum, not a teacher.

That was a lovely and human response. It wasn't setting you up to think that finally someone loves you and you will be loved and looked after properly only to have your heart broken once again. It's not what the OP is talking about.