Am I terrible?

[Shakeylegs]

Just seen the thread about the person who accidentally didn’t pay for her big shop. Makes me wonder if my morals are in the bin because I’d not give it a second’s thought other than to chalk it up as a bit of good fortune.

the following three things have genuinely happened to me in the past few years, and I wonder if they make me immoral.

1. Bought some stuff off Amazon a few weeks ago. About £90 worth actually. Paid as normal. Transaction stayed ‘Pending’ for a week then disappeared and the money was never taken. I haven’t mentioned it.

2. Bought some petrol from an unstaffed supermarket petrol station. Put my card in as normal. Just as I was getting towards a tank-full, the pump just seized up and shut down. There was nobody around to ask, so I drove away. Was never charged any money for the fuel. Never mentioned it.

3. Bought some towels from a department store. Went to pay, and as I was doing so, asked if they’d mind storing them for me so that I didn’t have to carry them round all afternoon. They said fine. I didn’t pay at that point. Then when I went to pick them up, I was all ready to pay but the staff member just handed them to me and walked off, mistakenly assuming I’d previously paid. Again, I said nothing.

What do you think? I guess number 3 is the clearest cut bit of awfulness, but even then they literally handed me the stuff!

Weirdly, given what I’ve just admitted, I’d never actually steal something off a shelf. I even balked at ripped CDs back in the day, and wouldn’t touch a fire stick to get free Sky or whatever it is you can do. But those three things I did do. Am I awful?

I think God knows anyway. The amount of times I get ‘quality checked’ at the self service checkout. 24 items they checked today. Obviously all paid for cos I don’t steal except for special circumstances!

I would've sorted all those out. I'm a bit extreme and I can't even keep money I find! I saw £40 in a cashpoint once and I took it and handed it in. I found £5 in a park, no one was around so I took it and donated it to a charity.
But then I also complain when I have to and get given vouchers and gift cards.

I see. May be it’s to do with resentment. We’ve had our right to exist freely, to have food and shelter without paying a disproportionate price taken from us unnaturally because of greed

Jeff Bezos, is that you? Or are you a major shareholder in BP?

Couldn't give a shiny shite when it's big massive companies - do you think the big wigs are losing sleep because they're putting their prices up and people can't afford them?! Nope.

When it's a small business then I'd have to be honest, totally different kettle of fish.

Amazon, Asda and Debenhams? They'll be fine - hope you enjoyed your freebies and take no notice of people calling you a thief - hysterical 😂😂😂😂😂

I would have owned up and paid in all those situations. I blame my catholic upbringing.

Capitalism is a flawed system, but the solution is not stealing, and fucking over other people.

Thieves lack empathy. They lack the ability to think ahead a couple of steps.

The branch with too many thefts gets shut down. The shift manager with too many thefts gets sacked. The shop with too many thefts lays Sandra off.

The shop which sold a rocking horse through Amazon then didn't get paid is going to have to eat the costs. It's just some guy who took out a second mortgage to sell rocking horses using Amazon as a platform.

And. And.

I am all about avoiding hassle with these things, as my main criterion for what I do. 1 and 2 would almost certainly involve an extra trip, phone calls, form filling or similar, and I wouldn't bother, but number 3 was easily fixable at the time and I would have paid.

Evidently, my perception that I'm not a bad person doesn't match up with your perception of me based on this thread.

I've sacrificed my career and income to care for my disabled daughter and be the sole carer for my parents who both have advanced dementia yet the max I can claim is £76pw regardless of how many people I care for...so yes, I didn't pursue an oversight with John Lewis that was no fault of my own and I sleep soundly knowing I'm a good person regardless of judgment.

From a “does it really matter to them” point of view I understand why people think differently about big business vs small business but it would still matter to me and I’d feel guilty.

I always check my bill at restaurants and have let them know on many occasions when I’ve been undercharged and once took a small item from a supermarket by mistake (was in bottom of trolley and not scanned and didn’t realise until later) and so asked for it to added when I went again (I’m aware I’m a bit crazy - the till woman def thought I was!)

I ordered some clothes from next. About £300 worth on my account. Kept half & sent half back but they credited the full amount in my account 🤷‍♀️

Number 3 you took the piss and know it. That was just blatant stealing.

1 and 2 I wouldn't lose sleep over.

I’m the opposite, I’d have to pay.
Fir the towels you could have used your voice , “ thanks, but I’ve not paid yet”
A few weeks ago in Aldi I used the self checkout and miscounted my bananas, paid for 9 instead of 10 so the following week I added one on to even it out. Just seemed the right thing to do 😃

Why would you ask for some towels to be stored behind a till so you can go off for the afternoon and go back for them when you fancy it, before actually evening paying. Of course the person presumed you would have paid for them, as surely you don't put non paid items behind a till.

When we go grocery shopping I always stop in the baby aisle before anything else to give DS a pouch so he’ll stay settled in his pram. The number of times I forget to take the pouch from him to scan it at the end is awful 🙈 but sometimes I do remember!

I agree with this. OP there are lots of people who have and would do what you’ve done but (and I realise this sounds really Pollyanna-ish) the world is a less nice place for it. It’s wrong to knowingly take things you haven’t paid for.

I was in a local cafe last week and ordered a bacon and egg roll to take away, sat down when they made it and my coffee and they brought it over to me and were like thanks, bye. I had to remind them I hadn't paid yet and she was laughing and said I could have got away with it. But I didn't try because I'm a decent person and they're trying to make a living...

i get this. And I suppose the point of the post wasn’t to ask ‘Are these things stealing and is it OK?’ because I think the answers are ‘Yes’ and ‘No’.

I think what I was trying to get at was whether there is any nuance to that. Is it really so bad (is the world really a less nice place) to do what I did when the circumstances are obviously very different to pre-planned thefts, shelf-to-pocket shoplifting, taking from small businesses etc?

I remember years ago I worked in a shop, in the days when you had to manually put the amount in for a card purchase. I sold a £240 camera for £24 by mistake. The bloke I sold it to never came back. I got a minor bollocking for it but it was understood that these things happen. I wonder if that has clouded my view somewhat as well.

Maybe there is no nuance. Just interesting to me as to whether people see it the same way as I do.

For me:

Amazon - the difficulty of actually getting through to speak to someone about the issue would put me off raising it, plus potential hassle if money then gets taken twice. They have the mandate to take the money which is valid for a year, so I would rely on it being picked up sooner or later and corrected.

Petrol: I'd try to contact them, maybe go into the actual supermarket and explain what happened. I'd want something on record in case the police came calling.

Towels: I would mention I hadn't paid.

I don't feel comfortable 'getting away with things' - I've always pointed it out if I have been given too much change in a shop; once got sent two cheques from a solicitor and sent one back (got a nice letter of thanks); got sent two items from an eBay seller, emailed them and they said to keep the extra one so my conscience was clear.

It wasn't your money lost, though, was it?

Obviously very different

Yes, there's a difference between a pre-meditated crime and a spur-of-the-moment crime, and a crime of omission.

However you've still committed a crime.

There's no one 100% good, or 100% bad. Violent cartel people are sweethearts to their dear old mums. People who have dedicated their lives to orphans can have grumpy days and be snappy with a child.

By stealing, you take a step to the 'bad' side. And with character, before you know it, your occasional actions become your permanent way of being.

The culmination (which most don't get) is having your moral choices publicly on display. Ending up in The Daily Mail after walking out of a restaurant without paying, for example. Or facing public, criminal prosecution when a fed up shopkeeper decides to make an example of you.

But that’s the thing. My ‘character’ hasn’t become my permanent way of being. I don’t regularly go around committing crimes.

I am similar to you OP but am prevented being too "immoral" by having been raised with Islamic morals.

I really easily find myself accidentally not paying for plastic bags etc and then remember God is watching so I better do it. I found myself thinking about this stuff a lot lately as I had a little baby several months ago and often think"I won't be able to do X soon as she will learn/copy me" and am finding I do quite a lot of little not OK things eg. drinking straight out the carton.

The other day I bought a playpen online. It was too small when it arrived so I went online to buy another so we could double it up with more panels and I saw that it was now discounted by 30%. I bought two with the intention of returning the original one. Except the original one was already set up and I had no intention of putting it back together. I filled out the paperwork and returned the unopened newly delivered one as the original because I couldn't be bothered to package up the original one.

Also while DH was putting together the extra panels, he was missing some fixtures so I said to take it out the box we would return. He didn't listen to me and instead found them sold separately online..

Basically I find I would be even worse if I didn't have religion in my life. I know the thinking that a long long time ago religion came about because society didn't have these basic morals but now as a society we do and so you could argue we don't really need religion anymore. Except there is nothing to enforce these culturally/socially determined morals. For me, it's religion that forces me to try and be a bit better.

Edit to add that I THINK I would have sorted out all your three points, OP, but only after a little convincing in my head that God is watching and the right thing to do would be to pay etc

Why not bring your own and feed him before you go in? Because then it wouldn’t be free.

Why are you posting for opinions and then mocking those that give them? You literally walked away without paying for those towels = common thief in my opinion. Happy to help.

The amount of times you seem to have ‘good fortune’ seems to suggests it’s not good fortune. Strange how people dress things up to make themselves feel better.

Dressing up theft as good fortune doesn’t make you virtuous.

While everyone else pays for the theft.

But that’s the thing. My ‘character’ hasn’t become my permanent way of being. I don’t regularly go around committing crimes.

That's literally what character is. Your permanent way of being. Your outlook on the world. And of course you're not going to be blatant. You know everywhere has CCTV. You don't want to lose your job, get arrested etc. But you will do as much as you think you can get away with without consequences. Just as in the examples you have given.