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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Blazing row about Michael Jackson

644 replies

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:44

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

OP posts:
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21
Mumof2teens79 · 07/12/2023 15:06

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 14:56

But he is immature.

Who starts shouting about returning Christmas presents somebody had bought for them? How was that at all relevant to the disagreement? Three Christmases in a row he has span that one if there's any sort of disagreement, it's so ungrateful and childish.

That wasn't all he said anyway, he was coming out with some right bollocks about knowing how i "really" feel about him.

For me the argument took hold when he announced that the man is innocent, all smug and cocky, as though he knows the ins and outs. He has never even bothered to listen to the victims version of events before reaching his foregone conclusion.

How ignorant must you be to reach a verdict based on one side of the story?

I've had enough of him and his bullshit. He's always thinking he knows everything and that he's right, when in actuality he's as thick as mince half of the time and doesn't bother to educate himself on anything he tries to talk about.

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You sound incredibly mature and reasonable and this sounds like a loving relationship.
I can't imagine why you aren't speaking.

KimberleyClark · 07/12/2023 15:06

mantyzer · 07/12/2023 14:11

@Shakeylegs the examples you are giving are miles away from child abuse and rape.
For example the Beatles lyric is yucky, but the Beatles themselves at the time were aged 20 to 23 years old, so not that much older than a 17 year old.

Ringo Starr was 33 when he released You’re sixteen”. Yucky.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:07

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 07/12/2023 14:59

I enjoy the music, for he was an excellent and talented musician. I can also loathe and detest what he did, but throughout history there are examples of absolutely awful acts committed by very talented people and celebrities. If we shut ourselves away from all they did, there would ve very little left. Or is it just MJ you have an issue with? In which case you have no leg to stand on..

What's worse though, is you essentially told your husband that you thought he was a danger to your children and couldn't be alone with them. All because he didn't back you up on MJ music playing. Seriously melodramatic!!!

Just read my posts please. There is a history of him failing to safeguard his DD by not acknowledging the risk that a close family friend posed, and they were a convicted paedophile.

The numpty didn't believe the "rumours" and thought they were malicious and contrived.

With that in mind, with all he should have learned from it, of course I'm going to be alarmed and upset that he'd consider leaving our son with somebody accused of child sex abuse.

What he has shown me yet again is that he's a fucking awful judge of character and not somebody I can really trust to keep DS safe.

If I'm unreasonable so be it.

OP posts:
Everanewbie · 07/12/2023 15:07

Given his knowledge of your past trauma, maybe he could have chosen a different hill to die on.

I don't disagree with him, I don't think he's wrong. But with respect for your past, he could have handled it more delicately.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:09

gannett · 07/12/2023 15:04

Why are you with someone you think is thick as mince?

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I'm asking myself exactly the same thing.

OP posts:
IsadoraQuagmire · 07/12/2023 15:10

VanityDiesHard · 07/12/2023 15:03

This exactly. This is why I get so frustrated when people put MJ in the same league as Savile and Harris and R Kelly etc. The case against him is not nearly as clear cut as his detractors seem to assume, he was the victim of various grifters and attempted shakedowns.

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Exactly. AND I watched Finding Neverland and didn't believe a word his accusers said.
I don't listen to MJ's music, only know a few of his songs, but I like HIM.

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 07/12/2023 15:11

Oh I am very much with you OP. Don't get it at all.
Probably not worth an actual divorce over though.

Maze76 · 07/12/2023 15:12

i have seen the various documentaries and news items etc and I am not convinced that he assaulted the children- McCauley Culkin always defended him, as did others.

There is no comparing MJ with Rolf Harris or Salvile.. I agree with your husband, and it’s absolutely not worth arguing about

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:12

IsadoraQuagmire · 07/12/2023 15:10

Exactly. AND I watched Finding Neverland and didn't believe a word his accusers said.
I don't listen to MJ's music, only know a few of his songs, but I like HIM.

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Why do you think he went out of his way to develop these special friendships with children?

OP posts:
Mikimoto · 07/12/2023 15:13

If someone's suspected of something wrong, they're tried at court.
if they haven't done it, they're found innocent.
Anything else is simply a problem in the mind of OP - wishing someone had been found guilty for something they're not guilty of.
I think there's only one mince-thick person here.
Poor DH.

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 07/12/2023 15:14

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:07

Just read my posts please. There is a history of him failing to safeguard his DD by not acknowledging the risk that a close family friend posed, and they were a convicted paedophile.

The numpty didn't believe the "rumours" and thought they were malicious and contrived.

With that in mind, with all he should have learned from it, of course I'm going to be alarmed and upset that he'd consider leaving our son with somebody accused of child sex abuse.

What he has shown me yet again is that he's a fucking awful judge of character and not somebody I can really trust to keep DS safe.

If I'm unreasonable so be it.

Show quote history

Okay, then you're still the unreasonable one for staying in a marriage like this and not safeguarding your own children from a man your consider a danger to them.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:14

Maze76 · 07/12/2023 15:12

i have seen the various documentaries and news items etc and I am not convinced that he assaulted the children- McCauley Culkin always defended him, as did others.

There is no comparing MJ with Rolf Harris or Salvile.. I agree with your husband, and it’s absolutely not worth arguing about

The men from Leaving Neverland also defended him for many years. Abuse thrives on secrecy.

OP posts:
Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:15

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 07/12/2023 15:14

Okay, then you're still the unreasonable one for staying in a marriage like this and not safeguarding your own children from a man your consider a danger to them.

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Poor effort.

OP posts:
CrapGoat · 07/12/2023 15:16

@ANightingale that looks like HIM!

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:17

Mikimoto · 07/12/2023 15:13

If someone's suspected of something wrong, they're tried at court.
if they haven't done it, they're found innocent.
Anything else is simply a problem in the mind of OP - wishing someone had been found guilty for something they're not guilty of.
I think there's only one mince-thick person here.
Poor DH.

If you think being found not guilty in court equates to innocence then you're twice as thick as the pair of us combined.

Given that the statistics for how few rape cases result in a successful prosecution are so readily available, I want to ask how fucking dare you.

OP posts:
Letspretendweareallcool · 07/12/2023 15:17

I loved his music and just don't want to believe that he might have been a creep.
Sounds like you are sick of your DP anyway, maybe time to move on?

HootyMcBooby · 07/12/2023 15:19

mantyzer · 07/12/2023 14:13

@HootyMcBooby Jerry Lee Lewis did legally marry a 13 year old. It destroyed his career. There was outrage amongst the public and his career never recovered.

But he has not been "cancelled" as such, his music is still widely included on Rock n Roll Cds and stations.

AngelAurora · 07/12/2023 15:21

You started the row OP🤷🏻‍♀️

Bales23 · 07/12/2023 15:28

GinAndJuice99 · 07/12/2023 13:04

'Never convicted' is completely irrelevant. Jimmy Savile was never convicted.

He was never charged either, so not comparable to MJ.

Sharing a bed with a child doesn't mean one is having sex with them.

Never land is a recount of men who profited financially off MJ and are now seeking to profit more from his estate.

And I say this kindly, why do people who profess to have been sexually abused always seem to conflate their experiences with other people? Just because OP was sexually abused doesn't mean MJ is the one who abused her. Enough already!! Everyone has a sad tale in life.

NonPlayerCharacter · 07/12/2023 15:29

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:07

Just read my posts please. There is a history of him failing to safeguard his DD by not acknowledging the risk that a close family friend posed, and they were a convicted paedophile.

The numpty didn't believe the "rumours" and thought they were malicious and contrived.

With that in mind, with all he should have learned from it, of course I'm going to be alarmed and upset that he'd consider leaving our son with somebody accused of child sex abuse.

What he has shown me yet again is that he's a fucking awful judge of character and not somebody I can really trust to keep DS safe.

If I'm unreasonable so be it.

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You're not unreasonable at all to be concerned about this. But if you can't trust him to safeguard your son then you need to think about what that means for you.

Ohtobetwentytwo · 07/12/2023 15:30

Innocent until proven guilty...so you would honestly leave your kids in his care, assuming you knew him?

If any of my close family had allegations made about them, people I have known years, I certainly wouldnt take any risk.

Mirabai · 07/12/2023 15:31

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 07/12/2023 15:04

And he may be right! We don't know, we have people on one side saying he did it, we have people on the other side saying he didn't. We have MJ who denied it all and then died.

We have no PROOF! No CONVICTION.

I get what you're saying, but you don't know 100% for sure any more than DH does.

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As the head of BBC’s Children In Need said, when asked why he’d never allowed Savile to take part: “I don’t need a criminal conviction to tell me Savile should not be around children”.

5128gap · 07/12/2023 15:32

I think the issue is less about MJ (his guilt and the attitudes towards the work of people suspected or convicted of heinous acts is a controversial subject) and more about why your DP would push something obviously triggering for you. There's a time, place and audience for controversial opinion of that nature, and to an abuse survivor who is obviously becoming upset by the discussion isn't the most sensitive of choices.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:33

Bales23 · 07/12/2023 15:28

He was never charged either, so not comparable to MJ.

Sharing a bed with a child doesn't mean one is having sex with them.

Never land is a recount of men who profited financially off MJ and are now seeking to profit more from his estate.

And I say this kindly, why do people who profess to have been sexually abused always seem to conflate their experiences with other people? Just because OP was sexually abused doesn't mean MJ is the one who abused her. Enough already!! Everyone has a sad tale in life.

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Why would a grown man want to sleep in bed with pre pubescent children to which he is no relation?

The fame and star power blinds people. If MJ was a scruffy bloke from down the road having kids round for sleep overs there would be mobs with pitch forks.

But to answer your question about why do abuse victims conflate their experiences with other people's, because we know the importance of children being believed.

What do we say nowadays? I see it on here constantly. If a child tells you something has happened, BELIEVE THEM just not if the accused has fame and money

OP posts:
Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 15:36

5128gap · 07/12/2023 15:32

I think the issue is less about MJ (his guilt and the attitudes towards the work of people suspected or convicted of heinous acts is a controversial subject) and more about why your DP would push something obviously triggering for you. There's a time, place and audience for controversial opinion of that nature, and to an abuse survivor who is obviously becoming upset by the discussion isn't the most sensitive of choices.

He doesn't consider any of that, he just likes to be right at whatever cost. I told him directly why I was finding what he was saying to be hurtful and he still carried on. He is the most pig headed person I have ever known in my life.

OP posts: