14 year old, make up in school and self image

collarring · 2023-12-07T09:44:10+00:00

I've just had a row with my 14 year old (15 in Feb) as she was about to go to school wearing 'contour' make up along her jawline. It looked grubby and was really badly applied - but that aside I'd asked her not to wear make up in school as it leaves an orangey ring on her uniform collar - and also because I think it's not necessary. So while it looked terrible, the row was more about honesty in that she said she wouldn't wear it and then just went right ahead and did. School rules are that light makeup is ok and she doesn't usually wear much other than some lip gloss and mascara. She texted me from the train to school to say sorry about arguing but she just wants to look pretty and hates her jawline and chin (jawline and chin are perfectly 'normal'). In the past couple of months she has become more fixated on how she looks and keeps finding fault with her face and body. She also skips breakfast unless we sit and eat with her and even then it feels like she's trying to find ways to hide how little she's eating. She seems ok in general: works hard and gets good grades, does lots of sport, very little friendship drama, and generally we've a good relationship. This unhappiness with how she looks is a new thing - as is the arguing. She has two older brothers with whom I didn't have this issue - or any issues really other than trying to get them to study a bit more than they wanted to - so this is new territory for me and I want to help her through it as best I can.

IamnotSethRogan · 07/12/2023 09:52

I can tell you're really trying hard to navigate this pretty complicated situation!

It is hard to find the boundary of what is normal teenage anxiety with regards to looks and when does it start becoming a problem.

The eating stuff I would say is the most concerning. Not that it matters but is she a healthy weight ? You say she's sporty so I would assume she is.

I think wearing some make up to school at that age is normal. Maybe a nice little afternoon out somewhere with a make up artist (not sure if that's the right term?] Who can show her how to subtly and effectively apply make up that works for her? I'm not saying this is the answer to all her hang ups, but teenage girls are going to want to wear make up so maybe if she was able to apply it in a way that makes her feel a bit more confident, it might help?

I would say all you can really do is be there for her and keep and eye on it. It sounds like you have a lovely relationship, from the sounds of it. how she text to apologise for arguing sounds very mature. It's a very difficult age.

Catza · 07/12/2023 10:12

Badly applied make up is not an issue, we've all been there at 14 and it is part of growing up.
I think the eating thing is a potential warning sign and something to keep a close eye on but worrying about appearance is also part of being a teenager.
What I would say, is try not to dismiss her concerns. Saying her jaw is normal and she is beautiful may seem like a reasonable thing to say but from the psychology research perspective it reinforces the idea that you are not listening and not taking concerns seriously. It doesn't actually develop confidence in the long run.
Instead you should empathise without reinforcing beliefs (which is easy to say, hard to do, of course) and then explore solutions together.
In practice it may look like this:
"So you think your jaw is too square for your face and you don't look pretty? (demonstrates that you heard what she said). No wonder you feel upset (acknowledges her feelings). I would feel upset too if I though like that (empathy). What do you think we can do to make you feel more confident?"

Spinet · 07/12/2023 10:18

The makeup stuff doesn't matter. I make it a rule to only ever say 'you look nice' to my DDs about their appearance however ridiculous they look - unless it's a uniform problem and then I'll say 'you will get into trouble for those earrings' (or whatever).

The eating stuff I would get outside advice on straight away. If she is hiding how little she's eating she is probably hiding it more effectively than you think and there are new very effective techniques for disordered eating now - the first step is taking it very seriously. This can quickly get serious.

Original poster

collarring · 07/12/2023 10:23

IamnotSethRogan · 07/12/2023 09:52

I can tell you're really trying hard to navigate this pretty complicated situation!

It is hard to find the boundary of what is normal teenage anxiety with regards to looks and when does it start becoming a problem.

The eating stuff I would say is the most concerning. Not that it matters but is she a healthy weight ? You say she's sporty so I would assume she is.

I think wearing some make up to school at that age is normal. Maybe a nice little afternoon out somewhere with a make up artist (not sure if that's the right term?] Who can show her how to subtly and effectively apply make up that works for her? I'm not saying this is the answer to all her hang ups, but teenage girls are going to want to wear make up so maybe if she was able to apply it in a way that makes her feel a bit more confident, it might help?

I would say all you can really do is be there for her and keep and eye on it. It sounds like you have a lovely relationship, from the sounds of it. how she text to apologise for arguing sounds very mature. It's a very difficult age.

I'd say she's very healthy including a healthy weight - we don't have weighing scales at home but she looks strong and is energetic as she plays two different team sports and trains or has matches 4-5 times a week. She is notably not tall for her age but I brought her to our GP last year for an overall checkup as she hadn't seen a GP since she was 6 (she just hadn't been sick other than COVID and a couple of minor colds in all that time!) and as I was wondering if her height indicated anything (I didn't say that to her) and she said she was perfectly healthy.

OP posts:

Original poster

collarring · 07/12/2023 10:34

Spinet · 07/12/2023 10:18

The makeup stuff doesn't matter. I make it a rule to only ever say 'you look nice' to my DDs about their appearance however ridiculous they look - unless it's a uniform problem and then I'll say 'you will get into trouble for those earrings' (or whatever).

The eating stuff I would get outside advice on straight away. If she is hiding how little she's eating she is probably hiding it more effectively than you think and there are new very effective techniques for disordered eating now - the first step is taking it very seriously. This can quickly get serious.

I shouldn’t mind the makeup so much and emphasised to her that the key issue was about honesty in that she said she wouldn’t wear it and then did. But seems like we need a better chat about it.
Yes I will absolutely keep an eye on the eating.

OP posts:

Original poster

collarring · 07/12/2023 10:40

Catza · 07/12/2023 10:12

Badly applied make up is not an issue, we've all been there at 14 and it is part of growing up.
I think the eating thing is a potential warning sign and something to keep a close eye on but worrying about appearance is also part of being a teenager.
What I would say, is try not to dismiss her concerns. Saying her jaw is normal and she is beautiful may seem like a reasonable thing to say but from the psychology research perspective it reinforces the idea that you are not listening and not taking concerns seriously. It doesn't actually develop confidence in the long run.
Instead you should empathise without reinforcing beliefs (which is easy to say, hard to do, of course) and then explore solutions together.
In practice it may look like this:
"So you think your jaw is too square for your face and you don't look pretty? (demonstrates that you heard what she said). No wonder you feel upset (acknowledges her feelings). I would feel upset too if I though like that (empathy). What do you think we can do to make you feel more confident?"

Thanks, this is brilliant advice. Of course in the heat of the moment I tell her she’s gorgeous but I’m kicking myself for doing that now! I think we need to have some calmer chats and I’ll try to not dismiss her and show more empathy. I know it’s normal but I’m a little upset that this once brave, fun and confident girl is upset over her own face and body.

OP posts:

Spinet · 07/12/2023 10:43

There's a good bit in that Phillipa Perry book - the book you wish your parents had read - about not making a big deal of teenagers lying/doing things they say they won't. They are just dishonest with you because they don't want to piss you off but they also want/need to do the thing. In the case of makeup you can absolutely see how that would happen can't you, especially if she thinks she's got a horrible jaw.

I'm not sayinh she has an eating disorder - you know her best - but here's a checklist to look out for if you're worried. https://beat.contentfiles.net/media/documents/tips-2019.pdf

https://beat.contentfiles.net/media/documents/tips-2019.pdf

Original poster

collarring · 07/12/2023 10:43

IamnotSethRogan · 07/12/2023 09:52

I can tell you're really trying hard to navigate this pretty complicated situation!

It is hard to find the boundary of what is normal teenage anxiety with regards to looks and when does it start becoming a problem.

The eating stuff I would say is the most concerning. Not that it matters but is she a healthy weight ? You say she's sporty so I would assume she is.

I think wearing some make up to school at that age is normal. Maybe a nice little afternoon out somewhere with a make up artist (not sure if that's the right term?] Who can show her how to subtly and effectively apply make up that works for her? I'm not saying this is the answer to all her hang ups, but teenage girls are going to want to wear make up so maybe if she was able to apply it in a way that makes her feel a bit more confident, it might help?

I would say all you can really do is be there for her and keep and eye on it. It sounds like you have a lovely relationship, from the sounds of it. how she text to apologise for arguing sounds very mature. It's a very difficult age.

And thank you for saying it was mature of her to text - she did try to continue the argument - but at least she started by saying she hated arguing and was sorry (I said sorry too)!

OP posts:

TimeForTeaAndG · 07/12/2023 10:46

Do you check her social media? Tik tok etc are full of accounts for dieting, eating disorders etc. If need be I would take her off the apps all together for a while. Has there been any bullying in school, if she is sporty does she have a more muscular figure (knew a girl in my Dad's sports club who was being called fat when really it was all muscle).

I'd let the makeup go and invest in stain removal soap bars. The honesty....it's not the hill I'd die on as she is obviously having issues with her body image right now.

Original poster

collarring · 07/12/2023 10:54

TimeForTeaAndG · 07/12/2023 10:46

Do you check her social media? Tik tok etc are full of accounts for dieting, eating disorders etc. If need be I would take her off the apps all together for a while. Has there been any bullying in school, if she is sporty does she have a more muscular figure (knew a girl in my Dad's sports club who was being called fat when really it was all muscle).

I'd let the makeup go and invest in stain removal soap bars. The honesty....it's not the hill I'd die on as she is obviously having issues with her body image right now.

I don’t check her SM. She’s had a few - very few - incidents of kids being mean but has always handled it herself and well. Doesn’t mean I know everything that goes on of course although my sense is this is related to her stage in life - some more insecurities, figuring out how she appears to others etc. Should I be checking her phone more?

OP posts:

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 10:57

How humiliating for her

Loads of teens wear make up at that age

Just let her get on with it

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 10:58

No do not check her phone

Bloody hell

Poor girl possibly bullied at school

And now at home

Wow

Emeraldsanddiamonds · 07/12/2023 10:58

I have a square jaw. So did Grace Kelly. You can't shade it out. I almost always wear my hair back off my face so the focus is on my eyes and cheekbones and not my jaw. Look at old photographs of Grace Kelly - almost every photograph shows her with her hair pushed back. A little bit of highlighter on the edge of the cheekbones can help too.

Original poster

collarring · 07/12/2023 11:00

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 10:57

How humiliating for her

Loads of teens wear make up at that age

Just let her get on with it

I don't understand - what's humiliating?

OP posts:

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 11:00

Neither of my DC sit down for breakfast before school

The fact you're forcing her to do that is weird

It's weird

Your behaviour is quite frankly bizarre and no doubt the crux of her issues

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 11:01

If you can't understand then there's no hope for the poor girl

Catza · 07/12/2023 11:02

collarring · 07/12/2023 10:54

I don’t check her SM. She’s had a few - very few - incidents of kids being mean but has always handled it herself and well. Doesn’t mean I know everything that goes on of course although my sense is this is related to her stage in life - some more insecurities, figuring out how she appears to others etc. Should I be checking her phone more?

Show quote history

Please don't check her phone. It's a major breach of trust which will have long-term impact on your relationship going forward. Unless she is happy for you to do it but, again, this should be done through conversing and negotiating boundaries.

twistyizzy · 07/12/2023 11:02

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 11:00

Neither of my DC sit down for breakfast before school

The fact you're forcing her to do that is weird

It's weird

Your behaviour is quite frankly bizarre and no doubt the crux of her issues

Just because you don't sit down for breakfast doesn't mean the OP is weird! @collarring we all sit down for breakfast together, we sit down for every meal together.

SilverCatStripes · 07/12/2023 11:03

I think it must be incredibly difficult for teenagers to develop confidence in them selves when they are constantly bombarded with filtered /posed shots online, and it’s really important to help them learn to love themselves just as they are but of course part of that is experimenting with your clothes/looks etc, but you don’t want her to fall in the trap of getting so used to the made up version of her self she doesn’t appreciate her real own lovely face. What a minefield !!

Can you spend a little time showing her the difference between “curated” images and ordinary photos - there are some influencers who do occasionally post along the lines of this is my instagram photo but this is a photo of me not posing/ no filter etc, it may help your DD see that people look much different in real life to filtered/posed photos.

You sound like you have a great relationship with your DD OP, mine is only 10 so I have all of this yet to come.

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 11:04

She forces her DD to sit and have breakfast

Forces

OPs own words

Original poster

collarring · 07/12/2023 11:05

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 11:00

Neither of my DC sit down for breakfast before school

The fact you're forcing her to do that is weird

It's weird

Your behaviour is quite frankly bizarre and no doubt the crux of her issues

Just because your kids don't sit down to eat breakfast doesn't make it the norm. 🤔

I'm not forcing her, we all used to eat breakfast together before she went to secondary school. She likes to go to bed very early and I think it better she eats in the morning than not as it's often a good 13-14 hours since she has eaten. If I'm concerned about her eating it seems like an ok thing to eat with her. Besides, since we started having breakfast together we usually have a nice chat before school/work.

OP posts:

Spinet · 07/12/2023 11:05

Yes I think the fact she called to say sorry about arguing shows you have a lovely relationship. I personally am finding teenagers very much a learning journey and think that the relationship is actually the only means of control I have!

Original poster

collarring · 07/12/2023 11:05

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 11:04

She forces her DD to sit and have breakfast

Forces

OPs own words

my words: 'She also skips breakfast unless we sit and eat with her and even then it feels like she's trying to find ways to hide how little she's eating.'

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 07/12/2023 11:06

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 11:04

She forces her DD to sit and have breakfast

Forces

OPs own words

I presume she doesn't physically force her but as breakfast is the most important meal of the day then she is trying to encourage her DD to eat it! A good breakfast sets them up for a day of school.

TimeForTeaAndG · 07/12/2023 11:07

Checking a child's (she's 14!) phone is not a breach of trust or bullying. It's good parenting to be aware of what they're being exposed to online. It's not a diary, and any parenting guide will recommend having some sort of access to their internet use. Really it should have been established that access to a phone and all that entails would also come with the random checks before it was given. DD got a phone at 10, with limited app access, we don't check it very often but she knows we can and we have parental locks on things, timers for switch off etc which will be amended as she gets older. Precisely because we know what shit is on the internet and it's our job as parents to try and protect her as best we can.