Managers focus on soft skills feels like discrimination

[Hicorky]

Hi,
I work in a loosely marketing job, really it's more brand management. I had to attend a networking event as part of work last week, I've been to hundreds now and know the ropes. I was asked to take two girls we have with us on "year in Industry" placements from university. Not a problem, they are working between marketing and brand management so I don't know them great but thought it would be fun,
In meetings I've been in where their progress has come up it's been clear at every level above one girl is liked much much more than the other. Our company sells expensive products that I imagine many 20/21 year olds haven't had a lot of real engagement with. However one of the girls has, due to a much wealthier background. The other girl doesn't have that experience, she is also autistic and has ADHD.
The networking event was a couple of speeches then drinks and light buffet. After the speeches I said they could either stick with me, I'd introduce them to people or if they felt confident they could go off and work the room.
The girl who is seemingly loved by all went off and worked the room the other stayed by me. The first girl was a natural, not surprising since based on her instagram she's a member of various private members clubs, so I assume she's quite used to networking.
I'd say she did all of it with more ease than I did. The other girl was really shy, stuck to my side and even when I'd directly include her in conversation struggled. I'll assume this is part of her autism.
When I got back I asked them both to just write up a report on it all, summary of the speeches and anything we could action or bring up at the next team meeting off the back of it, I planned to pass it along to my manager.
Yesterday they both gave me them and well girl 1 did much better than girl 2. She had managed to speak to each of the speakers after and ask lots of questions, got access to more resources etc. Just had a look and she's linked with two of them on LinkedIn now! The other girl was very much bullet points of the presentations.
My manager had a look at them and asked how I felt they did. I was honest and said girl
1 was definitely more comfortable but they both learned a lot. My manager now thinks that girl 2s lack of soft skills are extremely concerning. We've had other issues with her, persistent absence, poor quality of work even when being hand held through it. In comparison to her class mate they are worlds apart. Her classmate is very good at taking initiative, getting started on a task then asking questions as she goes. Girl 2 just sort of sits if she isn't 100% sure until someone approaches her.
We will be doing a review for them in then next couple of weeks and feeding back to the coordinator at their university.
My manager has expressed she is considering suggesting to the university they find a different placement for the last 2/3 of the year as she isn't thriving here or making any attempt to.
She listed her reasons as

• Poor work quality
• Persistent absence
• Lack of initiative
• Poor soft skills

I'm concerned the last two could be seen as discrimination considering she has autism? And I'd like to point it out to my manager before she goes ahead and uses those as reasons.
AIBU for thinking those reasons are discrimination?

Or perhaps this job is just a bad fit for her? Just as being a PE instructor would be for dyspraxic old me!!

They could definitely be interpreted as such - her skills may well be more towards the facts and data, rather than the straight schmoozing; however, they're both young and it is quite possible for somebody Autistic to develop those skills, given the experience and support.

Your being a safe guide is exactly what she needed at the event as part of her training placement. Then criticising her for effectively not being rich or neurotypical isn't.

Mind you, I wouldn't hold any hope of the first woman being with you for long. She'll likely be off to work for one of those competitors or being an influencer with shitloads of free stuff within ten minutes of her last lecture. After all, you've given her the 'in' with them, she's bound to take advantage of it.

But it's not just soft skills where she is having issues. Her quality of work is also issue. As first poster said, it simply may not be a job for her. We all pick jobs to use our qualities even when we would love to do something else.

Have a look at reasonable adjustments.

www.agcas.org.uk/knowledge-centre/a013ab9a-cff0-4055-8e69-b62f5e9d1411

Agcas have a pdf covering a lot if you Google.

Yes I think those two reasons are disability discrimination if the girl in question has autism and ADHD. Poor executive function will make it difficult for her to initiate tasks by herself, and “soft skills” are basically social skills which you can’t expect from a person with autism. Presumably the university informed the company about her disabilities in advance, and there should have been some discussion about what she can and can’t do, so it’s terrible to use that now as an excuse for sacking her.

The other issues may be related to her disability but not so obviously. For example she may be struggling with feeling overwhelmed by the work environment, too many people, noise, bright lights, no quiet place to retreat to during breaks. She may also be struggling with the commute if it involves buses and trains. This could affect her quality of work and lead to absences.

Clearly her absence and other struggles have been noted. What steps has the company taken to discover the causes and assist in resolving them? What reasonable adjustments have been put in place to accommodate her disability? This type of support is part and parcel of offering a placement to a disabled student. Honestly it sounds like your boss has just gone “she’s crap let’s get rid” without exploring the causes of her difficulties or attempting to resolve them.

But it's not just soft skills where she is having issues. Her quality of work is also issue. As first poster said, it simply may not be a job for her. We all pick jobs to use our qualities even when we would love to do something else

I agree with this

What steps has the company taken to discover the causes and assist in resolving them? What reasonable adjustments have been put in place to accommodate her disability? This type of support is part and parcel of offering a placement to a disabled student

The issues the OP and her manager have with this student are outside my expertise, but the above sprang out at me as being of crucial relevance.

Firstly her quality of work may be affected by the environment if it’s overwhelming and the company hasn’t put reasonable adjustments in place to support her disability. It may be the case that when appropriate adjustments are put in place her quality of work improves.

Secondly, maybe it isn’t the job for her. But let’s not forget this is a placement not a job. She probably needs to finish the 9 month placement to pass her course, it’s unlikely they’ll be able to place her elsewhere at this late stage.

She sounds like a poor fit for the job. How does her autism stop her writing a good report on what she heard? I’m not sure that persistent absence is linked to her autism either.

discrimination just means to differentiate between things. It is unlawful if the choice is impacted by a protected characteristic, but you do not (for example) have to hire a blind person to be a lorry driver.

I am autistic, have the background to understand social
etiquette, and am extremely intelligent. I am also very shy and awkward.

I have a job as an adult where I can work quietly at my desk, largely independently. It is a highly skilled field and pays well. I have had great success in my field. If I had tried to go into something that depended on strong social skills and the ability to make small talk at social functions, my career would have been a disaster.

this young woman is at the start of her career. If it is a really poor fit, she would be better served finding that out now. There is a difference between discrimination and helping steer people to the right jobs.

I assume the girl in question knows it’s not going brilliantly.

Has anyone even spoken to her about how she is feeling about it?

Its a tough one.

If you need to be comfortable and confident networking to be a brand manager apprentice, then its not discriminating to say she can't do the job, whatever the reason for her discomfort and lack of confidence.

Similarly if you need to be 5ft2 to be a fireperson and you're only 5ft1, then you can't do the job.

The discrimination is taking her to a networking event with strangers and expecting her to perform. Play to her strengths, possibly data analysis or she might be really creative. I dont know, but networking is not likely to be one of them.

The other girl was really shy, stuck to my side and even when I'd directly include her in conversation struggled. I'll assume this is part of her autism

I don't think you can necessarily assume that, though. I know a couple of autistic people who will basically strike up conversation with literally anyone and are not in the least bit shy. They aren't necessarily always the best at actually reading the room with regards to who wants to be talked to, or at picking a suitable subject to talk about (one is a friend of DP's and has to be regularly reminded that, eg, the person sitting next to him on a plane might not be that interested in the history of his preferred sports team). But they are both very chatty.

By contrast, I am not autistic but would probably rather die than 'network' in the way you're describing. I'm really confident at public speaking and presenting, but having to 'work a room' is absolutely my worst nightmare. I have been known to literally hide in the toilets rather than mingle over coffee at conferences.

I think that, regardless of her autism, if she has a job where those 'soft skills' are listed under the person specification/job description for her role, then this needs to be discussed with her. Generally, if someone's lacking in a particular area of their role, you'd at least try an improvement plan and point them towards some training/development in that area before just getting rid of them.

Or it might just be that she really just isn't suited to that role, but would be ideal for a different post, so if a transfer/secondment might be an option, that would be worth thinking about it.

As an autistic person I lack social skills and feel like fish out of water in social situations, however my productivity, punctuality and initiative when performing a specific tasks is not affected. Now, of course, every person's profile would be different but equally, if she cannot handle basic aspects of the job, she either needs more support or the career is not for her.
It's not discriminatory to point out to the university where she may be lacking skills. If you don't she is more likely to fail her next placement anyway. Best to highlight it and let the university figure out what support they can offer.

Stupid question but has either of you (you or your manger had any conversations with #2 about her performance, how she thinks she’s doing, and if she thinks she’s a good fit for the role?

She does sound like she’s failing to thrive in the placement.

You also appear to be judging the two against each other. You have to be able to judge each of them individually against their performance.

#2 doesn’t seem to be getting much out of this placement so on that alone it’s worth a conversation with her coordinator.

How does her autism stop her writing a good report on what she heard?
Well for example, OP said she asked for a summary of the speeches and action points. So I presume the autistic girl took the instructions literally and produced exactly that. Whereas the other girl included other things that OP didn’t ask for. To an autistic person that would be outside of their remit since they were specifically asked only for summaries and action points. OP also said she liked the other girl’s report better because she networked with the speakers, which the girl with autism was unable to do due to her disability.

I’m not sure that persistent absence is linked to her autism either
I have autism. I’ve been known to quit jobs because the train journey was noisy and overwhelming and strangers kept touching me. Some days I called in sick because I just couldn’t cope with it. Also OP hasn’t said what adjustments were put in place for the girl’s disability, so perhaps the office environment was intolerable for her too. So yes, autism can be linked with absence.

I think it would be really mean not to let her complete the placement, surely she could be found work in other areas of the business, as PPs have suggested.

But I'm not sure the last two reasons amount to discrimination - I imagine people without autism or ADHD would also be let go if it was felt that their skillset was not suited to the role.

The problem is she may actually doing well at university as neurological disorder is viewed compassionately. It is much easier for a university to accommodate the symptoms than a 'real life' company.

I think this may be a warning to the many autistic/ADHD children that at some point in life there will be real challenges that inclusive policies can't take account of.

I also think the positive stories of ADHD/autistic children 'thriving' can sadly be disingenuous but no body admits this in public

We then come down to the fact that advocates often say people should be open about disability but it is debatable how much this helps

If you need to be comfortable and confident networking to be a brand manager apprentice, then its not discriminating to say she can't do the job, whatever the reason for her discomfort and lack of confidence
I agree, but it’s a bit late in the day for OP’s boss to decide this is an essential aspect of the role. If these are vital skills for the job then they shouldn’t have accepted a placement candidate with autism and ADHD, who clearly isn’t going to have those skills.

This is a real shame. We expect the finished article. Some people need more guidance and support, but then do even better once they’ve found their way. Many young people, regardless of a diagnosis, would struggl to ‘work the room’. In this respect, I also think there is discrimination - against the less confident, young men, autistic women.

@Sparthan

I agree but isn't it up to universities as well to maybe suggest a course isnt suitable as the work placements necessitate a certain skill set?

The university probably has quite happily take tuition fees with the promise that the degree and all its components are inclusive.

The university can quite easily and is duty bound to make accomodations meaning the company boss is then the bad guy.

Thank you for not just writing off the second girl. Last year my DD was the second girl also on a placement year. She was dropped in at the deep end with a company expecting to use a placement student to cover a product owner on maternity leave. My DD struggled, probably 50% her fault ( probably autistic, awaiting diagnosis) and 50% the company's unreasonable expectations.

The way they handled it was very poor and has resulted in my DD believing all grad schemes to be beyond her capability, her degree to be of no use now and me trying to shore up her self confidence to get her through her final year.

If you do let this girl go please, please, please give her feedback on some strengths so she has something positive to focus on.

I remember a programme about social mobility made by Amol Rajan, all about graduates getting into top jobs. He compared the progress of a young man from a very advantaged background (Dulwich College etc) with another graduate with equivalent qualifications but from a disadvantaged background. It was fascinating; sadly no longer on iplayer, although a second programme he made on the topic is still available I think. Both were trying to get internships etc.

A lot of social mobility interventions appear to be based on the idea of employers accessing untapped pools of talent, which of course is quite likely to be the case. But half the problem in this programme seemed to be that the privileged young man was also very likeable, hardworking and had great soft skills. It would have been hard for any employer to argue against hiring him, whereas an employer would have had to look a bit harder to see that in the other graduate. From what I remember those characteristics were probably there, but just at a much earlier stage of development.

I am not sure what the solution is, but surely girl 2 needs more time to develop rather than having her placement ended abruptly?

I think it's colleges. I saw them do that "of course you can do it if you want to!" encouragement in absolutely not suitable situations.

While reasonable adjustments at work help, sometimes they simply are not enough. As said, sometimes we cannot do the job we would love to. Some people manage later to have it on a side or as a hobby, but such is kife whether it's because of disability or lack of certain talent or skills.

Being realistic with people, while still encouraging, so making sure they know what the problems might be and what other maybe better suitable options they have, would make lots of young people's lives easier. Same goes for pushing people for uni when they are practical rather than academic (like writing essays) and then they end up absolutely miserable for 3 years and end with 2.2 while they could have thrived in different environment.