Managers focus on soft skills feels like discrimination

[Hicorky]

Hi,
I work in a loosely marketing job, really it's more brand management. I had to attend a networking event as part of work last week, I've been to hundreds now and know the ropes. I was asked to take two girls we have with us on "year in Industry" placements from university. Not a problem, they are working between marketing and brand management so I don't know them great but thought it would be fun,
In meetings I've been in where their progress has come up it's been clear at every level above one girl is liked much much more than the other. Our company sells expensive products that I imagine many 20/21 year olds haven't had a lot of real engagement with. However one of the girls has, due to a much wealthier background. The other girl doesn't have that experience, she is also autistic and has ADHD.
The networking event was a couple of speeches then drinks and light buffet. After the speeches I said they could either stick with me, I'd introduce them to people or if they felt confident they could go off and work the room.
The girl who is seemingly loved by all went off and worked the room the other stayed by me. The first girl was a natural, not surprising since based on her instagram she's a member of various private members clubs, so I assume she's quite used to networking.
I'd say she did all of it with more ease than I did. The other girl was really shy, stuck to my side and even when I'd directly include her in conversation struggled. I'll assume this is part of her autism.
When I got back I asked them both to just write up a report on it all, summary of the speeches and anything we could action or bring up at the next team meeting off the back of it, I planned to pass it along to my manager.
Yesterday they both gave me them and well girl 1 did much better than girl 2. She had managed to speak to each of the speakers after and ask lots of questions, got access to more resources etc. Just had a look and she's linked with two of them on LinkedIn now! The other girl was very much bullet points of the presentations.
My manager had a look at them and asked how I felt they did. I was honest and said girl
1 was definitely more comfortable but they both learned a lot. My manager now thinks that girl 2s lack of soft skills are extremely concerning. We've had other issues with her, persistent absence, poor quality of work even when being hand held through it. In comparison to her class mate they are worlds apart. Her classmate is very good at taking initiative, getting started on a task then asking questions as she goes. Girl 2 just sort of sits if she isn't 100% sure until someone approaches her.
We will be doing a review for them in then next couple of weeks and feeding back to the coordinator at their university.
My manager has expressed she is considering suggesting to the university they find a different placement for the last 2/3 of the year as she isn't thriving here or making any attempt to.
She listed her reasons as

• Poor work quality
• Persistent absence
• Lack of initiative
• Poor soft skills

I'm concerned the last two could be seen as discrimination considering she has autism? And I'd like to point it out to my manager before she goes ahead and uses those as reasons.
AIBU for thinking those reasons are discrimination?

@Sportycustard

I am sorry to hear about your DD and graduate training schemes can be stressful and there is cometition for them. Also some companies are just bad employers and many pay lip service to inclusivity programs.

It may be that your daughter finds the right type of employer eventually 🙂

Unfortunately, if you're not a good fit for a job, you're not a good fit for a job.

Sadly whilst it might legally be discrimination, it's also a reality that not every person is right for every job.

If this doesn't work for girl 2, it's as well she works out now what suits her best and not in a few years when she's in a job she hates and makes her ill.

@BadSkiingMum it wasn't her. It was them

Failure to make reasonable adjustments is automatically unlawful discrimination.

Have reasonable adjustments been made?

Also to add, you cannot just suggest to the university that they find alternative placement. I take on placement students and when issues arise you need to demonstrate that the student is aware of the issues with their performance (i.e. documented minutes from the weekly review where these issues were raised), you put a collaborative action plan for improvement which details additional support provided, deadline by which you expect improvement and specific outcome measures you propose to track improvements etc. Only after the clear plan has been put in place and the student failed to follow through despite additional support, you can have a discussion with placement coordinator about terminating the placement.
These are your basic responsibilities as practice placement educator/supervisor.

I’m not an expert but if you lack soft skills that’s just a statement of fact - it’s not a direct criticism, just an expression of an area of weakness (which we all have)

I don’t see lack of initiative really comes into it, unless her manifestation of autism is such that she isn’t picking up cues to do things that an NT person would.

I wouldn’t worry about policing your manager and this gig seems absolutely wrong for her, so it’s in everyone’s interests her university finds something that works better

TBF it often doesn’t work like that IMO

But anyway it’s the OP’s manager’s problem

Are initiative and soft skills required to do the job? Can she do them adequately with reasonable adjustments?

If yes and no then you can discriminate. I'm disabled and some jobs simply aren't suitable for me.

@Zamzamzamdeedah

A lot of wise words there

Universities that are heavily marketed themselves are not going to turn away money and their courses nay not be to the benefit of the student

The inclusive environment of universities and the 'being your whole self' to work attitude is creating unrealistic expectations in an unsympathetic world.

I wish schools and universities could have the hard conversations and not pass the buck to employers when it may be more difficult to reappraise career choices.

I’m not sure how it qualifies as discrimination. Discrimination is effectively treating one employee less favourably than another. Stating the young woman lacks certain skills is not discrimation, it is a statement of fact.

Every time I had issues with my student, I was asked by placement coordinator to provide documentation as above. Which is completely fair. If university does not require it, they are a shit university.
When I was a student, some of my colleagues went through a placement thinking they did a great job just to get a D at the end of it. If no relevant documentation was provided from the placement educator, the organisation was removed from the next cohort allocation list as they were deemed poor placement provider.
I am sure it is not a norm with every uni and every industry but it really should be. The students are there to learn, not to plug holes in the rota.

Why do people insist on giving their "answer" on threads like this when they clearly have zero knowledge of the law in question.

I’m a lecturer in a similar management subject, and our students do years in industry. IMO this is a learning experience and if I were the tutor my preference would be working with the student and industry partner to address the issues outlined so she can complete her year placement. When you take on students in placements such as these you are agreeing to assist in their education - as any teacher will tell you there are wildly different levels of intelligence, motivation, engagement and so on with any set of students, and teaching needs to be differentiated to their needs. That means yes, reasonable adjustments for disabilities (I agree the last two could be seen as discrimination), but also ‘scaffolding’ the learning so those with greater needs don’t fall off the edge. It would be quite a blow to lose a prestigious placement, so anything that you can do to give her a chance to address the behaviour that is not working for your company would be best practice I think. You can make it clear absence and so on is a problem, while working with her and her tutors to help her get the most out of the placement.

They do require paperwork, but if it’s not working out, they often do whatever it is they do to push that through based on a quick conv with the company. If it’s an in demand company, no university is going to want to piss them off.

I think there is a middle way myself, so I am not advocating this, but it’s absolutely what happens

I think you'd be sensible to suggest to your manager that the feedback concentrates on areas for development and things like "soft skills" can be presented as an area for development without that needing to be discrimination. If those skills are indeed needed for the job. So ability to meet new people absolutely can be a requirement for a job, but I'd say they need to try not to compare with the other person as I'd say a lot of students may struggle in that sort of situation.
So if the manager suggests that some work is required in these areas in order to be successful then that's very reasonable. I'd suggest to them probably better not to lead with "find another placement" but perhaps talk to uni about how they can support this girl in developing these areas and if she doesn't want to then look for another placement

Quite a lot of people seem to have zero idea about what employers have to do in regards to disabilities.

www.gov.uk/reasonable-adjustments-for-disabled-workers

It's a requirement to offer reasonable adjustments.

Auditory processing difficulties is almost always present with autism....and she had to do it in a sensory demanding environment, also very difficult for people with autism.

My first action would be to meet with student 2 and talk to her about how she is finding the placement. She may hate the job and it not be what she had expected so that would mean suggesting a new course is what she actually wants. Alternatively she may want help with networking etc. A discussion is your first port of call.

Firstly it's important that they're being given feedback based on expectations of someone on placement rather than against the other employee.

Secondly 'soft skills' in and of itself is subjective and not effective feedback. What within that is an issue? Was she given clear direction (especially bearing in mind its a placement) about expectations of outcomes from the event?

Of course the role might not be for her, but it's important that reasonable adjustments have been considered and that feedback is fair with points for improvement. Has the quality of work been addressed and a plan in place to support her?

I agree not all jobs are suitable.
But graduate jobs in particular seem to drop people in say as a manager with no training and they often arent very good and bluster their way through.
I went for several graduate schemes but got nowhere as had a 2:2. Plus as im likely asd im awful at interview. I just cant make up the little stories off the cuff
Anyway got a temp job at the company and quickly got made permanent. Then head hunted etc.
I would agree with pp that often the person 1 will leave very quickly as the job isnt high enough paid or what they want.
Most graduates arent going to be great at networking as they are 20! So its an unfair comparison.
But missing work and no initiative are fair concerns. Yes it could be the asd but people will need to turn up.

Personally maybe more interviews for university places could help sort who wpuld actually work well in the job area.

'Reasonable adjustments' are a moveable feast though. It depends on the needs of the role, the emplouee and the employer. Boots would have to make adjustments than a single handed employer. There will be particular essential parts of the job that need to be met by the employee - and if the role cannot be altered to accommodate those needs (blind bus driver example) then the employer must try and find equivalent role to suit the employee. But that is not 'stick your head in the sand and ignore the difficulties'.

So start with - these are what we think the riole needs - how does that fit with what you are doing - how can we alter any areas that you struggle with - and if we can't because they really are core areas - what else could you do for us that you would flourish in?

Presumably the university informed the company about her disabilities in advance, and there should have been some discussion about what she can and can’t do, so it’s terrible to use that now as an excuse for sacking her.

Wouldnt it have been ‘disability discrimination’ again if they actually did that and decided without giving her a chance that she wasn’t suitable? Or shouldn’t she have initiated that conversation herself? Neurodiversity seems like a very complicated minefield which is hard for everyone to navigate.

Is networking going to be a big part of a job in your industry?

Everyone with autism is different. But I'm autistic and would never take such a job. Social stuff like that is exhausting and would lead to absence from work for me. I've found a way to work and be good at what I do sounds like this girl needs to rethink?

I'm not sure if it's discrimination. She's being evaluated on her work not assumed to be not good because of her diagnosis. It's fine to not want to discriminate but if she cannot do the job pussy footing around that will not set her up well in life. I do find it frustrating seeing other neurodiverse people demanding accommodations for work amd expecting to get special treatment. If accommodations enable you to do the job they are good and essential because it is disabling sometimes having nuro differences. If you just cannot do the job it shouldn't be pandered to imo. Like someone in a wheelchair couldn't be a hiking leader- they deserve accommodations to do a job but if the job is the thing their disability means they can't do they need to rethink what job to do

Did you know she was neuro-diverse before she began the placement? What sort of plan was put in place, to make reasonable adjustments for her disability ?

My DD is 17, very bright, ASD, borderline ADHD. I can’t tell you how upsetting I find posts like the OPs … sometime people need a bit of support, need to be given a chance, and need a bit of time. As a manager, sometimes you need to do a bit of learning about supporting people with a disability, there may be a talent in there, that you are missing out on. As a leader, imagine the sense of achievement in developing that person…

She got her first job at Boots last year, as a Christmas Temp, and they were so incredibly supportive.. she had one day off when she was overwhelmed, but never missed another shift.

Outside of the disability, not everyone will have had the social opportunities of wealth, and private members club… not like giving jobs to poor people either ?

As if having ASD isn’t tough enough .. she’s now being booted from her placement. Are you sure your organisation should be taking industry placements?

In the hiking example it wouldn't he reasonable adjustment would it. But within many jobs there is plenty of scope for reasonable accommodations which don't affect the output. From what OP has written I'd be concerned that due to her autism assumptions were being made that this was the reason for the networking event not going overly well when this might not be the case.