to believe that some children in the classroom are acting as if they are three or four years younger than their actual age.

[Coldcaller]

DD 2 is a science teacher in ordinary Comprehensive school where grade 5 in English and Math's hovers around 40% and about 25% of pupils are in receipt of FSM. Therefore, in all probability it is a very average Secondary School. DD 2 is very reticent about continuing to teach at the school or possibly to give up teaching totally. This is down to the behavior of many of the children and DD was continually given the bottom sets to teach in year 7, 8 and 9. because she appeared to the SLT to be the teacher who could mostly engage with them. The behavior never mind any interest in the subject from many of the kids is horrific, swearing fighting refusal to sit down and general anarchy being regular. Despite the appearance DD was getting depressed teaching these groups and was using all her efforts on classroom management and not teaching. A lack of interest in handling the difficult and disengaged kids is shown by members of the SLT. This, means classroom teachers are asked to continue teaching even if swearing is heard as long if it is not aimed at the teacher. There is no point sending a child out, for swearing because SLT will just re admit the child to the class . Isolation is the last resort and would probably require a physical assault to have taken place for it to be in-acted.

DD went to the head of Science and the Headteacher 4 weeks ago saying that she was not enjoying teaching and was thinking of quitting teaching. The truth was she had an interview for a Chemistry teacher for a Co-ed Independent, where the benchmark for GCSE grades are 8 and 9's . Despite having the interview, the head of Science talked her round, convincing her that she would be putting the department in a huge hole if she left. Because DD 2 is nice but naive, she agreed to stay at least until the end of July 2024. This, was on the proviso she would be teaching the top sets in years 9, 10 and 11. The behavior of her current year 10 top set Double Science is currently causing her concern for their immaturity . The kids don't swear or fight but act like 11 year old's. 15 year old girls putting their hands up and telling silly tales, boys laughing at very immature behavior reminiscent of year 6 boys. These kids are expected to get between grades 5 -8 in Double Science in June 2025 and DD says her top pupil is currently in line for a 4 if lucky ! DD is expected to plug the gaps left by the ex teacher in year 10 and these kids are the schools 'Cream'..

Yes, I often wonder if we should have thought about it for DD2. But then nearly all the private schools here are academically selective, and she wouldn't have got in. And as her problem is school avoidance, we might have been paying an awful lot of money for her not to go to school.

The kids that have entered primary this year were crawlers / toddlers when Covid hit so the lack of regular socialisation at this point will have impacted them to some extent.
Also, after lockdown I came across lots of people who ' nipped out' from WFH with little ones to attend play groups or the playground. I often wondered what the child was doing for the rest of the day while their parent worked....
What nobody has mentioned so far is that children of all ages are plugged into devices so much that their attention span has and is impacted.
Like every it's ok in small doses but will ultimately have a knock on effect on development especially for the littlest kids watching screens instead of developing fine motor skills.

@MrsTerryPratchett
That's really interesting.

At my school a few years ago we were creating a new vision statement in groups. (Vom).

As a group, we talked about why we had become teachers.

It was about an even split between those who had loved school and those who had hated it.

It was a fascinating conversation.

(I hated it.)

My opinions, for what they are worth:

The rise of smartphones mean parents (especially mums, sorry to say, as they tend to be main carer on mat leave) are not co-regulating with their infants as much or as well. They are looking over baby's shoulder at their phone while feeding, instead of into their eyes. This has a huge impact on emotional regulation and language development. And so it goes on, with parental attention repeatedly drawn away from parent/child interaction, send then very young children given screens to keep them quiet and compounding that loss of interaction.

COVID exacerbated this because young children were sharing space with parents trying to work and having to dismiss their very young children's bids for attention and interaction repeatedly. There was also a loss of opportunities for social growth in baby and toddler groups, nurseries, playdates etc. So vulnerabilities were exacerbated.

With older kids, the impact was more on missing underpinning curricular skills (more than knowledge content) eg missing reception and year 1 has had a big impact on current year 4 and 5 who missed the chance to really consolidate early skill acquisition in literacy and numeracy. Many have caught up of course, but again, pre-existing vulnerabilities are exaggerated. Older kids missed early independence skills - my most impacted kid was about to do GCSEs when COVID struck, his year struggled with A levels exams as hadn't been through the GCSE system, and also limited independence in things like nights out with mates, first trips off camping with friends, etc. he started uni a long way behind, maturity wise, but has made massive progress.

This has all been compounded by a newly challenging "Gove" curriculum which only started a couple of years pre pandemic and which places huge expectations on very young children. With COVID impact many simply haven't been able to reach the incredibly challenging expectations on them academically, and the government has gone very little to help. They certainly haven't stressed play, socialisation, and independence skills which are the fundamental prerequisites really - a little support was offered for knowledge catch up but that was a misunderstanding of the most vital stuff kids missed in lockdown. This means that teachers are trying to get kids to do things that a higher proportion than before COVID are simply not able to attain. These kids by the time they are in year 8 or 9 know they aren't going to pass GCSEs in these subjects, there's no alternative curriculum or qualifications offered in most schools, is it any wonder they don't see the point? And start mucking about, swearing etc? They are exposed to their own inability to meet expectations every day. I think I would get ground down in that situation, too.

Teaching is not for everyone - I know for sure I couldn't teach at secondary level, just from my own memories of watching my bored teenage peers playing up our less effective teachers. I know it is harder for schools to exclude pupils now, and I suspect that is not helping at all.

I'm another teacher who personally hated school (and have combined type ADHD!) so must be an outlier @MrsTerryPratchett

Tell her to move schools before she gives up. She sounds a wonderful person.
ignore the school’s comments about leaving them in a hole , they won’t be there for her if she has her life ruined by stress etc.
please tell her to give the other job a go .
from an ex teacher who was In this exact position.
if it doesn’t work out then she can look into something else.

I’m absolutely mystified by the rise of non verbal children. I can see how a speech delay would be expected because of lockdowns causing a deficit in social interaction, or parents chatting less to their kids due to screens, but to have no language at all?? There have always been neglected children, whose parents would dump them in the high chair and switch TV on, yet I never met a single child growing up who couldn’t speak unless there was a clear reason (ie profound cerebral palsy). It feels like nobody wants to acknowledge there has been a rise in this sort of thing and instead it’s better diagnosis, but these issues are so evident they could never have flown under the radar even 40 years ago. What’s going on?

But on another thread there will be conversations that one shouldn’t potty train until the child is “ready” even if this is aged 3.5 etc. We were shamed in Spain when we went with my “just” two year old. All other children her age were not in nappies. She was hot and uncomfortable in hers. When home I just “did it “. It took a few days and she was clean and dry even at night. And she was so proud of herself for being a “big girl “. Sometimes we don’t go children justice in keeping them back.

I went to a fairly average school in the UK and was in all top sets about 20 years ago. The surrounding catchment area was low income but not horrendous. There was a mix of families in council housing and privately owned and rented homes. Even in top sets there was a lot of disruption, constant chattering, not listening to the teacher and disrespectful behaviour. It got a bit better at GCSE level when we selected our own subjects.
My own sister teaches early primary in a fairly deprived area. Lots of low income and unemployed families, lots of domestic violence and kids with child safety intervention. Her pupils are 5 and yet they scream and swear at each other and the teachers mimicking what they can only have heard at home. There are so many emotionally dysregulated and traumatised kids in her class which makes behaviour management difficult. I can only imagine these are the kids who by secondary school will be punching each other in the bottom sets.
Sadly there is a huge amount of disadvantage and poor behaviour at school is the result.

This is excellent articulated

She won’t be leaving a hole they will fill it in. Go to an indie school pick wisely ask about pension, Saturdays etc

did over 20 years in state - 20 years too long!

You have actually explained in your post why kids in another country end up being potty trained younger - hot weather.

Of the teachers I know it is the parents that are the issue, they don't want to believe it

@AutismProf

This is not excellently articulated. This is giving up on young people before they have even had a chance because of preconceived notions.

I refuse to believe that young people don't have a chance.

Yeah, you can write them off, and it's both easy and difficult.

And @Coldcaller your daughter's job is fuck all to do with you really.

I agree with this.

I also hated school and sort of fell in to teaching.

OP

I did a lot of supply, including in some very challenging schools.

One thing I did that helped me cope was to call the parents of the children who are behaving. Just to say there is a a lot of disruption and I might not get a chance to acknowledge your child but I have noticed them, I know they are working and I appreciate it.

Also I agree with a lot that @Devilsmommy said.

Have there been any studies done recently that connect (or not) screen time/games/YouTube use with poor behaviour in school? I wonder if we’re blaming a lot of stuff on the pandemic but it went hand in hand with increased screen time?

@Galiana Your final sentence was rude and uncalled for.

Everyone blames the pandemic but the truth is endless screen time means they haven't developed key social skills.
Every time your child is spending an evening gaming or messaging on their phone - they're not actually socialising with other teenagers face to face. Previous generations would have hung out, got into trouble, done stupid things together but that's part of learning and growing. Technology has taken these key experiences from young people and they simply don't grow up in the way they should.

Behaviour in schools has always been an issue. Even back in the 90's when I was at school we had these problems of disrespect, backchat, even violence in the classroom and there not being much that teachers could do.

I do agree though that Covid has had a big impact on this generation of young people and things like the putting their hands up and telling silly tales show the lack of social development.

Really I can't feel anything but sorry for these young people who have missed so much important development, and I don't know what the answer is.

I really don't think so.

Screen time is an issue, of course, and some kids stay up until the early hours playing XBox or whatever. But this was just as much of an issue before the pandemic.

There has definitely been an impact of Covid and teenagers' social skills have regressed or just not developed as they normally would.

Screen time/ games/ social media are a separate issue which do have an impact but were already there even a decade ago. It has got worse over the last 3 years since Covid.

Pandemic.
Screen time.
Pressure of Instagram etc.
Massive rise in parents who intervene to prevent any tiny moment of discomfort for their child.
Insane curriculum expectations in primary meaning there is no time to nurture, discuss, deal with anything.
Big rise in parents who don’t want to take any responsibility (but know their rights).

All this and probably more.

Where is this giving up on young people? Understanding or theorising about *why" something is happening gives you the curiosity and drive to try to find solutions and the clues as to what the solutions might be.

I vehemently object to you suggesting that perceiving reasons for observed behaviours is the same as writing off those young people or claiming they don't have a chance.

There are loads of solutions: more information on coregulation in infancy and on phone use. More advice on when to use screens. Prioritisation of play and book sharing in the early years; later introduction of reading and formal numeracy as in Scandi countries. Adjustment of the national curriculum to include a national qualifications scheme for those who are not going to get 10 GCSE passes whatever anyone does, and change in Ofsted so schools are not penalised for offering alternative qualifications. Specifically, a core offer of a maths and English curriculum that actually measures basic numeracy and literacy alongside the GCSE spec.

My entire career has been around not giving up on kids who struggle.

Even our preschool cohorts the last couple years are seeing much worse behaviour and lower attainment for speech and communication, social skills etc.

My DH is a neurologist and he said that this is 100% down to screens, addictive games and the “slot machine like” infinite scrolling.

They've done FMRIs on 9 years to 17 year olds for their current research and he said they have the same brains as drug addicts. All the same places lighting up.

Covid just made a bad situation worse.