Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

[zendeveloper]

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

@Weegie91 I was replying to Arafina about her point on people in the U.K. not caring about immigration.

I get that. I still think it’s important for the public to recognise that spousal applications have actually fallen and are not the issue.

This government allowed for hundreds of thousands of people to come in and plug gaps for skill shortages. And issued half a million student visas.

spousal visas make up less than 10%.

I get what you're saying and of course we should be investing in training etc but my point is that I don't think it's the common man/woman that's choosing not to do this, it's government and they are using immigration as a scapegoat to hide behind, I'm saying that immigration isn't an everyday conversation in my circle anyway but it's possible that the average person could be asked a leading question and be led to the conclusion that everything that's wrong in this country is because of immigration which anyone with an ounce of critical thinking will know is absolute bollocks

I stand by my point.

You can look it from another angle. You have immigrants disproportionally paying into a system they can't use (benefits, UC etc). So where is all the extra money going? Immigrants can't access it... so are immigrants subsidising British people?

I haven't read it, I'm just talking about the spin "it's what the people want" who are those people? I've never met them and no official body has asked me my opinion, it's all a smoke and mirrors to detract from the carnage that they have made of the immigration system

You’re right the 750k figure did get reaction, including on mn but elsewhere even more likely

If we're going to account for the potential healthcare and benefits a migrant may at some point access, shouldn't we also account for all the healthcare and education they didn't get from us? Surely the cost of 12+ years of education alone more than covers a baby or 2.

I dont fall for it, the UKs problems are mainly caused by the global debt bubble and ordinary folk thinking buying up loads of property with debt was the way to wealth, fix that problem and lots of other problems fix themselves, but in the meantime anything that puts downward pressure on rents and house prices is to be welcomed.

Oh for christs sake. I absolutely did not say that anywhere. (Puts head in hands).

Look you clearly have skin in the game here, and as I acknowledged anyone with an emotional connection to this is going to have an emotional response.

The fact is that there are thousands of people up and down the country who every day make decisions which balance the wants/needs/rights of the individual with the need to keep a society and public services functioning and the taxpayer to get value for money. This, albeit crudely and with a blunt tool, is what the government is doing on a much wider scale. 10% is quite a lot of percent really after all.

Responses and rhetoric like this is why we can’t have an adult reasonable discussion as a society about these sorts of issues and is part of the reason we’re in this bloody mess.

Edited to say - for the record, I absolutely don’t think this should apply to people already in the UK. That is just bloody cruel.

Then care is not the right sector to shove those people in and force them to work. Do you think the workshy should be foisted on vulnerable people so they can work? I'd rather shove them somewhere unimportant, like an office.

@Seagrassbasket there is nothing wrong with my rhetoric. You are talking about people like they are numbers on a spreadsheet.

The reason the country has a failing NHS or failing schools or a crumbling welfare state isn't because a small number of British people bring their spouses here.

The country didn't even have a legislated workplace pension scheme place until the last decade. So you now have millions of retired Brits pulling from inhumanely low pensions, trying to survive in record inflation without their heating on.

Now all of a sudden, every single problem the country has is being blamed on immigration.

So yes, I do have an emotional response when someone claims the government needs to "hedge bets" against spouses and that we are a burden on the system.

I am confident that even if the government deported every single immigrant tomorrow, the country would still face the exact same problems everyone has pointed out in this thread.

Low wages. Crumbling healthcare. Housing crisis. Ageing population.

There would be just no boogeyman to blame.

The 750k was pretty high, various sectors do need people atm so some visas are necessary, there was discussion on here from some around dependants being too high

If it goes down to say 450k (everyone will have their own it’s too high number) I reckon pressure for policy change would decrease

Where not to decrease is around shortage occupations - ie keep those, it doesn’t leave much to change

Does it apply if you are already here?

Fair points, office, gardening, cleaning etc. is more suitable for breaking someone away from their couch/weed habit.

@Weegie91 but that’s the point I’m trying to get across. To the government we are all just numbers on a spreadsheet. Nothing in the country would function at all if we weren’t.

The problems in the UK are of course far far more complex than just blaming everything on immigration despite what the press would have us believe. A low wage economy with underfunded public services has us fucked.

But I think it’s unreasonable to just immediately shut down any discussions about whether it’s sensible to allow people to live here who might not be able to support themselves. And this is supposed to be a discussion. Not hysterically shouting at people who don’t agree with your views.

I really honestly do hope you can figure out your own situation to your satisfaction if you are affected by this.

That’s seems to be what people up thread have been saying. It might just be people panicking. I haven’t read the announcement myself.

I laos assumed before it would apply only to newcomers. Application of ghe rule to those already here and on that visa would be ultra shitty.

It absolutely applies to people already here. People only months away from ILR will now be ineligible to apply, with no time to make the necessary changes.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britons-downing-street-james-cleverly-prime-minister-gavin-barwell-b2458731.html

Erm... Where was I shouting? Or being hysterical?

I was just pointing out how cold it was to use the language you were using, talking about government hedging bets and saying people need to contribute if they want to bring their spouse over... which they already do.

I am not shutting down any discussions. I am pointing out the many, many inaccuracies that people believe about spousal immigration to the UK. Hardly anybody understands the process, the costs and the restrictions.

You are right: A low wage economy with underfunded public services has us fucked.

But an overcorrection to banning British people from bringing their spouses here unless they earn above average median wage is hardly going to solve it.

Yes it does.

A spouse visa lasts 2.5 years, then you have to apply for another one. When you do the latter the new salary thresholds will apply. So if you don't meet them the spouse will be deported.

No, it isn't fair. At all.

It should be £100,000.

@Weegie91 you said:

‘You do realise that you are basically saying the UK should create a system for British people to only reproduce with someone in the UK if they are British?’

Thats hysteria really, and it’s just not true, when you compare it to my post. I didn’t say anything of the sort. So it just undermines everything else you’re saying.

I’m sorry about my language sounding cold. I spend most of my life divorcing my emotions from the decisions I make as a professional. I have expressed lots of sympathy and empathy on a human level though.

I’m not going to reply to you anymore. No disrespect I’m just done and we will never come to a middle ground I suspect.

Merry Christmas!

So heading into a likely recession that isn`t looking good for a lot of people?

@Arafina you have not read the reports or do not know the numbers yet talk about lacking of critical thinking. Probably just as a way to insult? Europe is receiving massive increases in immigration and is unsustainable. Overpopulation brings poverty and yes there is concern from governments across Europe. If you or your friends are indifferent to this fine but do not deny facts or gaslight others because you are perhaps an idealistic individual?

@Oliotya From the Independent article you linked to it said:-

In a bid to allay concerns, No 10 clarified that the minimum income of £38,700 was for a “household as a whole”.

So that is £38.7k for both people combined.

At the moment, a person working a 37.5 hour week on minimum wage earns £20,319 per year and from next April will earn £22,308.

So, two people, each working full time on minimum wage will currently be earning £40,638 or £44,616 from next April. This is above the limit of £38.7k.

On the new minimum wage, if both people are working at least 32.75 hours per week then they will meet the income requirement.

Yes, it will definitely affect those whose spouses are not yet in the country. But for those whose spouses are already in this country then as long as they are both earning the equivalent of minimum wage for 32.75 hours per week then there is no problem.