Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

[zendeveloper]

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

This is a threshold for the whole country not just London.. when we earned a combined 76k I.e. 2 38k salaries we bought a london flat in 2019. And even before my husband got a job exceeding 38k and worked for more than 6 months in same job, we had accumulated savings of 40k which was the majority of our 58k deposit due to living with family. I was on 25k then and he was on 50k (46k plus 4k bonus). We now earn combined 120k age 31 and 33 which I do consider low wage in london (though as a couple we do pay 33k in tax and national insurance) but we also own london property which even the ft says is an inheritocracy and a privilege for few. Is the threshold to buy london property a suitable threshold for a spouse visa.

But back then had there been a 38k threshold, we would have been separated for 3 years. As it took 3 years after graduation for my British husband to have accumulated 6 months work in a 46k paying job as he has a 30k starter job one year, 3 months in a 40k job, hr mistake in a 40k job offer which meant they forgot to issue his offer, plus months of reference checks.. so conclusion he is on 75k now and i am also earning in excess of threshold now but we would have been so screwed if we couldn't follow eu law or had to abide a £38k threshold when we got married at 22 and 24 respectively

I think the main problem with discussions like this is that people are unable to take their own emotions out of it. Lots of people talking about their own (admittedly very sad and difficult) situations and lots of people who have very strong feelings either way about immigration in general.

As a person who spent years and lots of money getting residency in a country not the UK, let me give you a newsflash.

The government doesn’t give a shit about your personal feelings or story. The government will do a) what is best for them to get re-elected (and I do think the net migration figures were too high) and b), hopefully, what is best for the country.

On a human level yes I do think it’s sad people can’t bring their spouses over. But you bring your spouse (who has no recourse to public funds for a few years, yes) and then have children and the birth costs a fortune (way beyond the NHS surcharge amount, plus all the healthcare the kids need in their first few years of life) and then the kids are educated (which according to a PP costs 7k a year) and there’s more waste for the bin men and more people driving on the roads that need maintaining and the list goes on and on and on. It’s not just housing benefit and UC.

It’s not unreasonable that the person sponsoring their spouse can contribute to all of that. The government needs to hedge their bets against all the spouses that won’t get a job when they get here.

Fair points, but remember the primary motivation for many people coming here is to get out of their own country for whatever reason and live in the U.K, it isnt to care for your Gran, although that doesnt mean they can`t care for your Gran it just means she is not their main motivation, on the other hand someone drawn to a social care type career is likely (not always, but likely) to have delivering the best care/support as one of their top priorities? I think the only solution is for care sector wages to rise, but then you get the reverse of people taking the job because there are loads of vacancies and they can get one relatively easily, you will get people who are not really suitable taking the jobs for the higher hourly rate.

@CrashyTime you're missing the point, people that we are talking about here are moving to the UK via marriage. Not all are escaping their country- rolls eyes.

Marriage is the classic way to gain access to a country, why do you think the internet is full of scams where women abroad try to lure men into "relationships"? This thread is over-romanticising the situation, the government are looking at the cold facts, there are too many loopholes and people are pissed off about it, that loses elections for parties that dont fix it. People "escape" countries for many reasons, maybe they just dont like their government or their family or something else about it, but there is a perception among the UK public that people are coming here for more generous benefits with a lower barrier to accessing these benefits (why else would you risk your life in a boat to leave France?)

You do realise that you are basically saying the UK should create a system for British people to only reproduce with someone in the UK if they are British?

Not everyone has kids as soon as they arrive here. In many of the immigration forums (Reddit, ExpatForum etc), a lot of people actually delay having children until they are permanent residents- so five years.

So, even after 5 years of paying excess into the system, would you agree they can reproduce then? Or should Brits with foreign spouses have a child ban placed on them?

As I said everyone pays for the abuse on the system. Of course there would be people sadly caught in this situation. There are too many people on low income immigrating and putting a burden on the system later on. People and the press are pressuring the government so obviously they would look at ways to reduce the numbers where they can. I find every time they try do something is met with outcries. If not from the press, the UN, activists and social left leaning media and even Mumsnet. Nothing gets done and back to square one.

I personally would not choose the U.K. to live at the moment if I can.

I think for me, what baffles me is people “still” think immigrants abuse the system when in FACT… we cannot access the system. What do people not understand about that? There is nothing to abuse.

We pay extra onto the NHS every year. We move into the property our spouse is already living in.

It seems British people always talk about a fair and equitable society, but if a British person marries a non-British person, they are not eligible to participate?

@CrashyTime As someone who is here on a Spousal visa, I think you do not understand how hard and expensive it is, even for someone on a 6 figure salary like myself and DH. As my very reputable immigration lawyer told me, the % of sham marriages is very low. People go by media headlines and think it forms a high % of marriages but that isn't the case.
Also for what it's worth the "blame the foreigner" rhetoric from the government is currently being used to mask their failings. Don't fall for it.

This is somewhat misleading.

The visa says no recourse to public funds, but you can use the NHS which is publically funded. So it's actually no recourse to benefits. Once you get ILR after 5 years you can access benefits for life. The NHS surcharge and NI is similar in cost to the private health insurance I was required to have when I lived in Europe, so its not that different in cost to comparator countries.

So the no access is to specific benefits and only for the first 5 years.

Who are these "people" that are putting pressure on the government? I keep being told this but I've actually yet to meet anyone that has ever mentioned it apart from my immediate family when it's on the news, most of us are having conversations about things that are personal to us or things like the price of lurpak or pot hole damage, is immigration something that keeps people awake at night if it's not directly affecting their life like it is for those who are awaiting home office decisions

It’s not misleading at all.

After 5 years you become a British citizen. So immigrants cannot access benefits, but yes British citizens can.

The problem is too much demand for too few public services. We could fix this by investing in training up e.g more doctors/nurses. But our society has chosen to, and keeps voting in parties with such policies, not do that and instead actively discourage people from these careers with poor pay rises, removing financial support for training etc. So if we don't want to do that, then the other answer is to throttle demand down by stopping immigration (debatable whether this works given most of the demand caused by old British people). The public seems to keep asking for this option and the parties are doing it.

It is hard and expensive because there is a problem. Marriages may be authentic in as much as they are validly done, but actual relationships behind them are not the same. Each year people are investigated in the UK when they get married to UK citizens for passports. This is s business for some. Some women seek British men to be the paper fathers of their children, ie paid to placed on the birth certificate. It is investigating spouses who claim to have the right level of English for their visa. It is checking students are attending universities and language schools instead of working.

There are problems. And they are expensive to fix and resolve with legal appeals and investigations when you try. That costs more money. This is why the Government is getting tougher and setting hard rules because the basic issue is that once a person is in the UK it is very difficult to trace or remove them or even to get interviews to start these processes.

I think in the end we will slash visas for all and do a deal on mobility with the EU. After the next election. Because EU migrants are perceived to leave.

Its is misleading if you talk about the additional cost to the public purse of the person. Whether they become a citizen or not is irrelevant to the financial cost to society.

You bring up a fantastic point though. I have thought for YEARS that instead of paying an NHS surcharge, immigrants should have the option to take our private healthcare instead on their applications.

That way every time the NHS starts crumbling, the government can’t blame us. Because we wouldn’t be using it, we would be private.

Would be a good idea based on my wife's experience.....has to pay the NI, the surcharge and then has to pay private because the NHS can't give timely appointments.

Most eu immigrants I know fly back to EU for doctors... It's simply often faster. I did too.

Same here. Paid thousands of £££ in extra fees for the NHS on top of my taxes and can’t even get a GP appointment. My wife has private healthcare at her company which is lucky.

@Arafina May be you have not read the official reports on net migration from the last two years? This is not longer something people are pretending is not happening and the facts are concerning. Hence, the government trying to make it less of an issue.

Same. I have a friend from France who has lived here for 10 years and she hasn’t ever used the NHS. She flies back to France.

Have you read the report? Because it states net migration for spousal visas (what this thread is about) have actually dropped.

Same here. Paid thousands of £££ in extra fees for the NHS on top of my taxes and can’t even get a GP appointment. My wife has private healthcare at her company which is lucky.

There you are. The U.K. would not be my first choice if I were emigrating now.

@JassyRadlett Look, I don't know why you are following me. I did not respond to you, I responded to another poster and my post referred to them and they replied graciously.

Self-funding as you quoted: Can you not even see that it is only possible because of a standard test they are applying (aka box ticking and nothing forensic)? Of course nothing prevents people affected from asking the HO is come up with a system of invoicing total real time costs just before the decision is released, whether or not in their favourite. This then with a 10 year processing wait is just not helpful to anyone. So that's just that.

End of.

If we could go back in time we would make a different choice as well. We decided to live in the UK because we met here when I was on a youth visa travelling. If we knew the process like we do now, we would’ve just moved back to my home country.