Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

[zendeveloper]

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

Sweetie, you made a claim that the visa system was funded . I asked for receipts, you were unable to provide apart from "check the news" and some vague stuff that seems to apply to the asylum rather than visa system. It's your research that's failed here.

On the basis of the evidence you've been able to provide for that claim, I think we can pop it in the "bollocks" bin unless you've anything substantive you're able to share.

On the rest of it - not relevant to anything I said - its a bit of a scathing indictment of the failures of the over-centralised British state when other countries manage more nuanced visa systems with eg regional visas, but I don't disagree that it's warranted.

I think the whole system needs an overhaul to be honest. It should be an automatic refusal if it’s a ridiculous situation of a fit young lad has amazingly fell head over heels in love with ie, Joyce, a widow from St Helens, who happens to be old enough to be his mother. Or (and this is just in my own Asian in-laws) a special needs young man who in the past 5 years has ended up with 2 wives when he just about knows what day it is. There’s more problems in the system than making sure someone can support who they bring here for whatever reason.

And what about people who are in genuine relationships? Who had the audacity to fall in love with a British citizen?

Do you have any idea what we have to go through to be approved for a visa?

We must hand over our text messages, photographs, bank statements, pay slips, employment contracts, housing deeds, signed declarations, bills, postal mail, and legal documents to prove we can be housed. Then, we must be fingerprinted and photographed by UKVI and pass a rigorous citizenship tests that I doubt a majority of Brits could pass themselves. All costing around £10k+ for the average application.

We are banned from accessing any type of benefit while simultaneously contributing more than British citizens (% wise) thanks to the £1k extra every year in NHS fees.

We can only leave the country for specific time periods and must explain any absences in our application. We are not eligible for many, many things during our 5 year application process due to our immigration status, from mortgage lenders to credit cards and sometimes even rental properties.

So, please tell me just how easy it is to move here. Sometimes I wish my partner wasn't British because it would be nice to move somewhere I actually feel welcome.

I think it’s fair to the economic future of the nation, for sure. If things are not fair in someone else’s country that is the problem of those countries, particularly the fact that very small % of people hold wealth in most those countries (former Soviet Union, Asia, Latin America). Bankrupting the developed nations that provide public health services, education, etc is not a solution. Actually it will make globalpoverty worse, but yes the top 1% benefit from the cheap labor. It’s the working and shrinking middle class subsidizing it! The social justice propaganda is paid for by the top 1%.

My first point is that if it is so impossible to live on any amount under 38,000 then no working family should have to live on less than that!

I think it's absolutely disgusting.

It seems some people think this only affects "foreign" people.

It means that majority of British young people will not be able to stay in the UK if they wish to marry someone from overseas, and this includes if they meet someone from a European country. Due to only one income being considered at first, they will likely never then have a chance to return

If you have DC who could potentially one day meet and fall in love with someone from overseas then you need to be against this.

And yes... Couples can live in the spouses country but surely that should be a choice, not forced out.

It indirectly discriminates against women who often don't earn that much or may be working part time.

I worked with someone for a short time who had lived in Japan teaching English, got married there, had two children, and then wanted to come 'home', she had no problem bringing herself and children in to the country but her job didn't pay enough to bring her husband in to the country even though he was well qualified and they had been married 15 years.

It's not just spouses this effects.

Where my dad lives there was a man, a British citizen who had been married to a South African wife and had two children, she unfortunately died, her parents were in a care home so not able to take on their grandchildren.

But he didn't earn enough to bring his children in to the country. Even though he had parents and siblings prepared to help in any way.

In the end he brought them in to the country for a 'holiday' so illegally. He played dare with the government, ie would they dare deport two primary school children?

Anything less than £30k isn't a living wage, why should people work hard and not earn enough to live on? What's the point of working if you can't afford to pay your rent/mortgage, feed, clothe your family and heat your home?

Would you?

The figure set by the govt is an admission that it's the real living wage, and that tells you that the majority of healthcare, hospitality and retail workers are not earning a living wage.

So, please tell me just how easy it is to move here. Sometimes I wish my partner wasn't British because it would be nice to move somewhere I actually feel welcome.

Right. The feeling that my kids don't matter, the government is hell-bent on deporting one of their (hard-working but whatever) parents...

Of course if we don't meet the criteria for right to remain when the spouse visa expires next year, then we will presumably be put on the ten year path- without the right to work, so ForeignParent will no longer be able to work freelance legally. And if they do deport ForeignParenr, BritishParent will have to give up their job and take benefits for the first time in their life to raise the kids (one with special needs).

I haven't slept since the latest announcement. We gave up so much to try to keep this family together- including enduring nearly a year's separation enforced by the Home Office- and they move the goalposts yet again.

We don't even have any visa considerations, and are actually looking at moving out of this country (UK). It's absolutely gone to the dogs, it's getting worse and we are currently looking at DH getting work in one of the Nordic countries who are much more family friendly and want people to succeed in life, not sink.

Hope this man got to keep his children here, all those heartless people on here may be regretting their words when it affects someone close to them, the most annoying thing is that it will never affect those that makes the rules as they don't live in the same financial world as the vast majority of us and/or they have friends in high places

Its also not about earning 38k. Sure you can earn 38k in your 30s or even double or triple that in your 40s. It's about earning 38k in the UK at the time you meet and marry your spouse. My British dh is on 75k but we married when he was 24, he wasn't earning that then!

I think it’s a fair amount. If the person earning has to support another then £38k really isn’t a lot for two people, let alone if you have kids. People shouldn’t come if they don’t like it 🤷‍♀️

Yes and that's why I feel so down about this figure. I am a londoner and both dh and I earn in excess of this figure. In my own estimation, as an early 30s londoner with a mortgage I should be earning double of the national threshold. Indeed we were both earning double of this threshold back even in 2019.

This means our own personal living wage needs to be 200k and we earn 120k.

My dh didn't earn in excess of 38k until 3 years into our marriage (we came here under eu law as he is british but studied in europe). We are now on combined 120k. Dh on 75k. It's not about whether you can earn 38k now, many people in their 30s and living in a big city can. It's about whether you can at that particular point in time.

BTW when we were on 76k (2 38k salaries) we bought a flat in London in 2019! Which isn't a million years away. Do you feel that only british people who buy london property should be able to settle in the UK with their loved one.

How is giving a year to find another job ‘cruel’? I was made redundant in April and found another permanent job within 6 weeks. Whilst I waited for security clearance, I temped for 4 months. There are so many jobs out there, you just have to be prepared to look for them and do them. Some people just don’t want to.

You don't seem to quite understand how the minimum income requirement for visas works. A redundancy, even a very brief period of unemployment, can pull you under the threshold. It's not enough to be employed, earning enough, at the time of application - it has to be sustained for 6-12 months. Allowing for 6 weeks of unemployment, your salary would have to be more like £42,000pa to meet the requirement, demonstrating 12 months of income. There's little room for error.

@Arafina I believe so, the last article in the local paper was them starting school in the UK.

The local MP was also very supportive.

That's good to know, thank you, hope children of the future are treated with the same humanity although I fear they won't be

It is a joke. The average person in the UK does not even earn that salary.

I've been dipping in and out of the thread. Brief but salient Guardian article this morning:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/06/saudi-sunny-foreign-care-workers-could-quit-uk-after-clampdown

That is a lot.
My partner and myself, don't even earn that a year.
He has 2 degrees and works full time, I work part time. It is a struggle.
The sectors that could do with immigrants coming over to help, NHS and Care, don't make that level of wages, nurses start at 22,000 (I think)

@CormorantStrikesBack Are you aware of the Youth Mobility Scheme (YMS) in the UK or the International Experience Canada (IEC) scheme in Canada?

From January a Canadian who is 35 or younger can get a three year work visa to stay in the UK. (It's currently under 30 and two years but it changes in January).

To be eligible he must be 1) Canadian 2) No older than 35 3) Do not have dependent children 4) have £2,530 in his bank account.

There is a £298 fee to apply for a YMS visa. People from many other countries including Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan can also apply.

There are also reciprocal arrangements for young Brits to go and work in those countries. The Canadian scheme, IEC has similar requirements to the YMS except that you are only required to have CAD$2,500 (£1,460) in your bank account.

Details of YMS scheme here:-

https://www.gov.uk/youth-mobility/eligibility

As I understand things, the £38k figure includes income from both partners (see here https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income)

So, as I understand things, he can come to the UK on a YMS visa for up to three years and get a job here. They can then marry and apply for his visa on the basis of both of their incomes in the UK.

Also, if your DD is saving for a deposit at the moment it may be better to put off buying a house as having cash savings reduces the amount of income you have to show.

For example, under the current requirement for £18.6k income if you have savings of £62,500 then you do not need to have any income at all. The figures change with smaller amounts of savings so, for example, if you have savings of £40,500 then the income requirement is reduced by £9,800 per year.

So, if that continues, then if you have £40k of savings then the income requirement will be reduced from £38k per year to around £28k per year.

I wonder if they looked at faked arranged marriages and all sorts of tricks people come up with to move countries. Unfortunately, everyone pays for as result of the ones playing the system.

To be fair as far as I know £18.000 is peanuts to live in the main cities even if you are single and child free. My salary of many moons ago of £24.000 pre tax would not have allowed me to work and live in London these days if I were renting and obviously owing would have been impossible. If you do not want people going straight to the welfare as soon as they are entitled this raise is fair and more realistic. People saying I do not earn that much and are struggling is precisely what they are trying to avoid. A bit late but I expect they would look everywhere they can cut further low income immigration. We have had a a huge number in the last decade.

@Another2Cats I didn't until yesterday and thank you so much for those details, much appreciated. It looks like that could work. I'd been trying to find out if once his 3 year visa was up would his wage count for a spouse visa so good to know it would.

@GlasgowGal82 It's a bit more complicated than that. If the foreign spouse is already in the UK on a work visa then the £38k income requirement is a joint requirement between both of them. It's only if the foreign spouse is not already in the UK that it is entirely down to the British spouse.

In the case of your best friend, there is certainly a demand for foreign teachers, especially in London. Here is one recruitment agency that supports foreign teachers in finding jobs in London and pays for their air fares etc to move to the UK:-

https://teach-now.co.uk/international-teacher-recruitment/

For example, I note that they are currently looking for a STEM teacher for KS3-KS5 for a school in Ealing. Salary ranges from £34,500 for a newly qualified (M1) teacher up to £57,000 for an experienced U3.

Once her husband is here on a work visa he can then decide if he wants to stay on a work visa or swap to a spouse visa. Since he is working in the UK both his and your friend's salaries will be taken into account.