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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be raging about this school scheme?

260 replies

Promdiddlyontomtom · 03/12/2023 17:01

Hi, name changed as potentially very outing.

Have found out recently that my daughter's school has introduced a 'Points for Prom' incentive newest low.

The school get good results.

The demographic has some challenges and therefore they have a VERY strict regime and the kids are controlled with strict policies and sanctions (and a little praise- the balance is well out). The kids get detention if they don't get 100% in HW for example.

This is, IMO, the lowest they have gone.

Their newest bright idea- the young people have to earn 'behaviour points' to be in with a chance to get a ticket for their Y11 prom.

Apparently there's not enough spaces for all pupils (they only have spaces for 2/3 of the pupils... so find a bigger venue then!)

This is not an incentive and should not be used as a reward for 'good behaviour'.

Surely this is just a control tactic. A punishment for not toeing the line.

AIBU to think that all teens should get the opportunity to go to the end of school celebration? It draws the line after 12 years of compulsory education, a stressful period of formal exams, and friendships going in different directions (there's no sixth form). It marks the end of an era. Why should they be told they cannot go? Why shouldn't they be able to mark the end of years of education - for some this may have been a struggle all the way through- with their friends. There'll be no closure.

For the record, I've no concerns that my daughter will be excluded. I just think it's an awful idea.

What do you think?

OP posts:
barbieofswanlake · 03/12/2023 19:26

here's a thought, why don't you simply act like a parent and support the school?Tell your offspring that all they have to do is keep their nose clean, and they will be going to the ball!

Clearly you weren't paying attention at school @charlotte361

Here's a thought..... Do you usually struggle to understand very simple concepts such as THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SPACES FOR ALL THE CHILDREN TO GO.

Bournetilly · 03/12/2023 19:28

If people are badly behaved then I think it’s fair enough to say they can’t come but it’s not fair for them to find a venue that will only fit 2/3 of the children because they are not giving them all a fair chance of attending.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 03/12/2023 19:29

In my first year of teaching, there was a student who absolutely kicked off during a GCSE exam, really disrupted it for other students, really upset a lot of students, and to be honest, probably harmed their grades. Yes, she did have anxiety, and I'm sure it was a reaction to that, but even so, she could have just quietly walked out, rather than doing what she did.

She was told she wasn't to attend prom, which to be honest was partly due to the anger from some of the other students, and there were huge issues on the day of prom, with her mum coming up to school and being really aggressive with staff etc.

As others have said, it can be really tricky to find venues for prom where tickets are affordable, and it's a nice, accessible location for the students (even worse for Y13 when there's always a proportion who can't drink yet legally and all the issues that come with that). Therefore, if you've got a good venue, it's important to keep them on side by making sure there's no vandalism, violence, vaping in toilets etc on the night.

I do agree that if the venue can genuinely only accommodate 2/3 of the students, that's setting some students up to fail, and I would query this. But beyond that, I don't have an issue with the idea in general.

As others have said, you're welcome to try and organise your own alternative event (and see how tricky that is!).

uninterestingusernamealert · 03/12/2023 19:31

SouthLondonMum22 · 03/12/2023 17:59

The issue here is that there isn't enough tickets for everyone which means that they are setting up some children to fail.

Generally, I don't have an issue with it.

Edited

Agree.

Setting up 1/3 of a year group to fail/be excluded in advance is shit.

Point deductions should be for actual poor behaviour. Not for things outside of the child's control.

But generally I do think it's a privilege not a right and if kids are going to dick around at school and particularly in year 11, from low level disruption which affects everyone to high level serious stuff then they shouldn't be allowed to go.

Why would a DC who has worked bloody hard (and the teachers too - who as much as it probably irritates them working in their free time, I would imagine, are probably happy/proud of the kids who've worked hard and pleased to wish them well) and had their lessons and learning time disrupted by someone being an arse all year, have their celebratory evening potentially spoiled by more of the same behaviour?

Oh and for the people saying hire your own venue in spite of the school - good luck with finding a venue that'll take hundreds of 16 year olds when there's no alcohol sales to boost profits especially if there are no teachers present to supervise it properly!! Most won't bother, too much mess and hassle for not enough money plus risk of underage drinkers on their licensed premises sneaking illicit booze past parent 'supervisors'. Nope:

And suggestions of someone find out who had the biggest house and host it there?!?! HAHAHAHAH! Who in their right mind would host a year 11 end of year party, in their actual home? Rather you than me, not a fucking chance!

Pewpewbarneymcgrew · 03/12/2023 19:33

barbieofswanlake · 03/12/2023 19:26

here's a thought, why don't you simply act like a parent and support the school?Tell your offspring that all they have to do is keep their nose clean, and they will be going to the ball!

Clearly you weren't paying attention at school @charlotte361

Here's a thought..... Do you usually struggle to understand very simple concepts such as THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SPACES FOR ALL THE CHILDREN TO GO.

Except we don’t actually know that as op hasn’t been back to confirm how she knows, she simply said ‘apparently’

Hoovermehenry · 03/12/2023 19:34

What a load of shite! Get a bigger venue! You can’t have a prom for 2 thirds of the kids- it’s either for all or not at all

LeggyLegsEleven · 03/12/2023 19:35

I worked for a large MAT and this was common. I know closer to the prom they would ease up on the requirements esp if they had tickets to sell, so you could go if you behaved the 2 weeks before etc.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 03/12/2023 19:37

I find it weird that there are even ‘venues’ for Y11 proms. It definitely feels like it should be a fancy disco in the school hall (which is what usually happens in American film and tv too).

I’m not really sure why it needs to be a dinner dance type thing with a proper venue.

It's not that it 'needs' to be a dinner dance type thing. It's that the students want that kind of thing. Is there any particular reason you think they shouldn't be allowed to?

Did I read the OP right and the kids get detention if they don’t get 100% on their homework. This is absolutely shocking!!! Surely if a child can’t do their homework this is a failure of the teacher.

I'm pretty sure the OP meant that the students have to do 100% of the homework set, not that they have to score 100%.

Your comment that it's the teacher's fault if a child can't do their homework is very revealing though. Surely it should be very obvious that quite often children do badly on their homework because, in spite of the best efforts of the teacher, the child hasn't paid attention in class or simply can't be arsed to do their homework,or do it properly? There are many other reasons for poor or not-done homework, including MH issues or problems at home. Funnily enough, those aren't the teacher's fault either Hmm

Mmmm19 · 03/12/2023 19:38

That’s just awful. Exclusion should be for only the most serious offences (eg physical harm of student/staff). My kids are in first school and I dread the move to middle and high where they seem to be so strict-maybe it’s necessary for some but so much I hear on here suggests all the fun and joy of school is gone.

charlotte361 · 03/12/2023 19:39

Pewpewbarneymcgrew · 03/12/2023 19:33

Except we don’t actually know that as op hasn’t been back to confirm how she knows, she simply said ‘apparently’

Show quote history

@barbieofswanlake I dont think you are paying attention, because i said that I do not believe there is not enough space. . The school would have no motive in not wanting all the students to behave well enough to earn a place.

uninterestingusernamealert · 03/12/2023 19:40

Needmorelego · 03/12/2023 18:28

@FelicityFlops most schools in the UK have been calling the end of school disco/party a "prom" for years now 🙄

23 years ago mine was known as a 'Leavers Ball'. In 2000, we were the first year group in the school to have ours hosted in a venue, rather than the school hall. Limos, fancy (well, Miss Selfridge and Topshop) frocks, the lot!

The local venue promptly banned the school from booking any more following countless incidents of smoking, illicit drinking (and not so illicit everyone including the teachers were worse for wear!) and (pupils) shagging in the toilets Grin

Camerasforinthehouse · 03/12/2023 19:40

TooBored1 · 03/12/2023 17:09

It's awful. I really hate the way they try and control the children by withdrawing rite of passage activities like this. Worst case was a school in our area that required 100% attendance, no exceptions. Not even for car accident/death of parent. Poor poor child wasn't allowed to go to prom as she'd been hospitalised and then went to her mum's funeral.

What?!!!!

TrickyD · 03/12/2023 19:41

You could organise your own prom for those unfortunate enough not to be allowed to go to the school's prom.

Fine if those ‘unfortunates’ were excluded because of lack of space. Sadly, many of them will be those whose anti-social behaviour led to their exclusion.

Good luck with organising an alternative prom for these students.

WaitingForRainAgain · 03/12/2023 19:43

Our school did this, prom attendance dropped as friendship groups couldn't go. Group of mums contacted school and went into detail about how inappropriate it was (included min attendance levels and max times kids could be late so would be discriminatory against kids with disabilities, other issues or even just those who travelled by train).
The following year they chose a buffet not sit down, so all kids could attend, and it was highest prom attendance ever, as everyone could go.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 03/12/2023 19:44

Exclusion should be for only the most serious offences (eg physical harm of student/staff).

To qualify for exclusion from the prom? Seriously?! That’s a hell of a low bar. So a student who has, for example, been persistently disruptive in class, used offensive language to teachers, (psychologically) bullied students and/or perpetrated vandalism of school property should be allowed to go to prom on the grounds that they haven't assaulted anyone? Why the hell should they?

OCDmama · 03/12/2023 19:46

I agree that everyone should be able to go that behaves well enough.

That being said, it's not a 'rite of passage' and kids don't need 'closure'. Two recent Americanisms that have proliferated here.

I'm 36 so not that old. We just left school. I'm not sat sighing about it to this day.

LeggyLegsEleven · 03/12/2023 19:48

DDs school has prom in their own hall but it’s enormous. Most school halls are not large enough to host them which is why they have to go elsewhere. Near me they all go to the same 2 hotels.

Namechanged3200 · 03/12/2023 19:49

My school does this. I hate it.

From the start of Year 11 they have to earn Prom Points.

It is in my view a very unfair system.

My daughter didn’t get to go to the Prom, yet another student who equally didn’t achieve the required points did.

It was, in my view a final fuck you to the kids they thought were a pain in the arse.

In your case, they MUST reduce numbers due to the space they have, I’d be wary this would influence the distribution of said Prom Points.

Original poster
Promdiddlyontomtom · 03/12/2023 19:50

Pewpewbarneymcgrew · 03/12/2023 17:28

As my other post says - op hasn’t said how she knows that, only that ‘apparently’ 2/3 can go

Show quote history

Because the pupils were told this was the case when they were told about the new 'Points for Prom' incentive.

OP posts:
Pewpewbarneymcgrew · 03/12/2023 19:52

Promdiddlyontomtom · 03/12/2023 19:50

Because the pupils were told this was the case when they were told about the new 'Points for Prom' incentive.

Show quote history

It will be a carrot - do you have it confirmed by school ?

PyongyangKipperbang · 03/12/2023 19:54

Could you get a parents committee together to boycott the schools prom and organise your own?

I would definitely be causing a fuss with the Governers on this one, and include the local press if it makes no difference.

Scarletttulips · 03/12/2023 19:57

I have teens.
Some pupils never turned up for school on a regular basis.
A few boys we accused of rape.
Several children were violent and disrespectful of staff.
Some regularly broke rules.
Some were smoking weed at lunch times.
This was a regular secondary school in a nice area

2/3 sounds about right - why should they organise a prom for kids who show poor manners and bad behaviour?

I hope you complain and they stop doing these ridiculously expensive proms.

Dowhadiddydiddydum · 03/12/2023 19:59

If accurate this is a fucking terrible idea.

Dacadactyl · 03/12/2023 20:00

PyongyangKipperbang · 03/12/2023 19:54

Could you get a parents committee together to boycott the schools prom and organise your own?

I would definitely be causing a fuss with the Governers on this one, and include the local press if it makes no difference.

I'm sure the teachers would be absolutely gutted to hear of the boycott and will beg you all to come to the prom organised by the school instead, lol

saraclara · 03/12/2023 20:01

FloofCloud · 03/12/2023 17:40

I'd get
Together with other parents and make their own prom elsewhere

But most parents will want their kids to go to the school one. As will most of the kids.

And any parent who thinks about doing this will soon find that it's incredibly stressful. Good luck to them with getting the money off parents, finding a venue, insurance, avoiding cancellations and no shows, organising the food and drink (for the numbers that turn up) and managing teenaged behavior and security. You'd be insane to try.