DH policing how I talk. AIBu

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So I was just chatting to DH about something we have paid someone else to do for us. At great expense. For example a menu for a big event.

We are going through a rocky patch. He is getting therapy to work out why he gets so triggered by certain things which can lead to him getting disproportionally angry and at times very verbally aggressive (name calling for example).

Discussion yesterday and an agreement that neither of us should give the other unsolicited advice or criticise each other. He has asked me to make a reasonable change in how we co parent and I have asked him to continue to work on being less reactive and angry.

So back to the conversation about the ‘menu’.

We were talking through it and the different aspects - what we liked and didn’t like. I said about one bit ‘I feel really ‘meh’ about this bit’. He said - in a slightly irritated tone ‘can I ask that when we discuss these things that you talk more positively.’

i stayed very calm. I’m getting very skilled at that! I said that I was just expressing how I feel about something. He said that I had asked him to change how he talks (I.e. when he’s angry and aggressive) because of how it makes me feel and so he is asking me to change how I talk because it dampens his enthusiasm for the ‘menu’

I very calmly said that I didn’t think it was equivalent and that I need to be able to express myself and my feelings and thoughts. I wasnt being critical of him or aggressive or morose. I was positive about the bulk of the ‘menu’. I was just stating my reaction to a part of the menu.

He was annoyed that I didn’t agree with him and huffed and walked off.

AIBU to think that he doesn’t have the right to ask me not to express my emotional reaction to a part of something that we are paying someone to provide.

Or am I right to stand my ground because I shouldn’t have to monitor what I say just in case it dampens his enthusiasm (it might have easily been that he felt ‘meh’ as well).?

No LTBs please. That’s the next step if he doesn’t stop the aggressive outbursts. Obviously this is a micro event in a much more complex situation but just based on the information here I’d be keen to hear views.

Thanks in advance to anyone that has read and comprehended all of that. I feel quite certain that I am being reasonable but the strength of his annoyance makes it hard to know for sure. Would be great to have different perspectives.

I’ve said the opposite to he is not working on himself.

It sounds such a stressful way to live for you. It is only going to get better if he is able to make those changes in himself which in the meantime leaves you in a position of complete uncertainty and powerlessness. I would also worry that at some point he will also start to become aggressive towards the DC. Can you work towards the aim of setting yourself up with a work situation which allows you the hours and money to have the DC more if you split. Best of luck. x

It sounds like you have received the answer you were looking for ie that you were not being unreasonable about a comments on part of a meh menu.

I was going to suggest that if you’d had another adult with you at the table, would they have felt uncomfortable at your meh remark? Presumably they would have felt awkward at your husbands response. Would he understand this if you pointed out? Would it work as the arbiter in future ones? (Ie an imaginary third person listening in?)

My ex also policed my conversation. He would actually tell me to say hello to someone in front of them (he hadn’t realised that I had spoken with them 5 minutes before and done the hellos). He would interrupt conversations I was having with another adult, either by saying x (the other person) “doesn’t want to talk about this” or move in close and say “lovely weather we’re having” and change the subject.

I also had the police toning (I got shouted at)for calling him from another room. “So rude, so rude”, he said aggressively, then rage when I didn’t immediately apologise. Another time I was talking with my brother and he was also at the table. He actually said to me “shut up, your brother is talking”

These all sound so trivial but when it’s long term and often, it pretty much destroys you and you lose any spontaneity you once had.

I was also accused of being negative and told what a downer I was. I felt my ex was too confident and could be too optimistic - this actually has led to a couple of financially bad decisions. I was not allowed to mention that I had been opposed to those decisions. They included two property renovation deals where we made about £400k less than we should have.

When we worked well together he saw the big picture and provided the drive, whereas I could see and forestall the possible problems and hold him back on rushing into things.

But it all became about me being so negative. Because he was often verbally aggressive I went grey rock, I did start saying something when he said these things in front of other people, but it was too little too late. He would never be aggressive with me in front of other people.

So I understand how relentless it is when you don’t know what you are ‘allowed’ to say by another. I admire that you are sorting things out and wish you the very best.

Im sorry that this has turned into a long whinge about me, but it’s surprising what goes on behind closed doors, with charming seeming husbands.

Apologies, I’m having a pity party this morning, that £400k would solve a lot of problems in my already contentious and protracted divorce.

Please read Lundys Why Does He Do That. It is very illuminating and I think you will understand a lot more of what most of us are trying to say after reading it.

It explains very clearly that abusive men learn new ways from therapy (or indeed from a mainly womens forum) to abuse their partner. Your partner has learnt a new way and it's obvious from your OP once you know the signs to look for. He is not working on himself in the way we would normally assume.

...he wants you to shut up entirely unless he approves of what you say.

This is exactly my take on it, too.

Bearing in mind he has these painful issues to work through that could take a long time and will cause him a lot of duress and emotional distress, is it not possible he can leave and go stay somewhere alone?

He'd be far better off from his own point of view as he'd have agency over his own privacy, need to retreat, need to rest, and how much 'reality' he can cope with on any given day.

Also, from a financial point of view, from a caretaking of children point of view, and from a very rational 'what makes most sense' point of view, I can't see how it benefits anyone if you're the one who leaves.

Personal aside: My father had my mum removed from our home when I was a child - he had her semi-permanently sectioned actually. I doubt she'd have needed to be sectioned if she hadn't been isolated, in poverty (financial abuse), trying to raise four small children, whilst walking on eggshells and the victim of a hate campaign and violence for over a decade. Being left with an abuser who 'won' the power struggle, as a child, is no solution and of course this was not a person fit to run a household or caretake any children so it sunk into levels of degradation and poverty that don't bear mention. Think twice before being agreeable to leaning into someone else's mental health and emotional disorder and abandoning children.

I don't know what sort of support there is 'out there' for these type of issues but I reckon you need some.

so sorry you went through all of that. You have done amazingly to come through it all and be so kind and empathic.

I think it would be really good for us to have a break but I doubt he would agree to moving out. If I suggest that he will be hurt and rejected and then angry and full of rage.

Im exhausted by it all.

I’ll talk to him again on Monday when DC in school.

If you think he has manipulated the situation to benefit him re the DC, then plan better. You are in a pretty strong position really.

I know you have other concerns as well, but- I’m pretty sure he’s only able to be the just about good enough parent he is because you enable him. You work the household around what he needs. You avoid his triggers.

Without you, either the DC will learn to manage his triggers- which is emotional abuse- or he will explode with them.

Obviously you don’t want that, but please don’t cover for him- don’t facilitate him getting 50/50 by managing things so well.

Please take it easy on yourself and try to stay as healthy and well nourished as possible. Remember, you're being gaslit here and you're walking on eggshells so you need to be military grade fit and healthy to survive the war.

Eat well, don't drink alcohol or use drugs, sleep well as you can, take your space as best you can, and also keep speaking your truth to anyone who is nearby and able to support - your friends, neighbours, family members, colleagues, other parents.

Is it in any way possible that you can communicate with his therapist in confidence and say that you're feeling in danger because of the sensitivity of the work that's being done is making him edgy? Any normal decent therapist is going to 'get' that? Any decent therapist would be luring him away from the family home IMO.

Altho in the instance of my (awful) childhood the professionals were definitely in favour of luring my mother out the home, probably to save her life in all honesty. It was also the 70s rise of 'womens lib' and free women from domestic drudgery and childcare which might have influenced. They accidentally seemed to forget about four small children which is most baffling to me to this day. What did they think that we were going to look after ourselves with no money no food no toiletries and no clothes or shoes? Most odd.

If you do need to leave - which is a legitimate thing you have to put your own oxygen mask on first - then all I can say is please make sure there's every form of agency possible looking out for your children, depending how old they are. Social services, the school, neighbours, other family members, other kids parents, the whole lot. What happened in my family was shrouded in shame and secrecy so no-one could help because they didn't know.

Thank you for all your advice. I appreciate.

Thank you to everyone. Really helpful to hear different perspectives.

You are right. The two things are not equivalent. Your not liking something shouldn't affect whether he is enthusiastic for it or not. It seems like ultra sensitivity and it makes him look rather weak but wanting to control you at the same time. I mean whether you like something or not is your personal territory. He has no business dictating or taking a huff or revenge if you don't comply. You are locked in some kind of tussle which is not healthy and I don't know if you can both find a way to disentangle that so that living together becomes more natural, more at ease than constant striving and contending.

I may have missed it but I was wondering if he works and about the general situation with housing, finances etc, and whether there is any scope to change some of those circumstances to alter the balance of responsibilities or control to get a different outcome as you contemplate your future options and the likely consequences.