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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DH policing how I talk. AIBu

86 replies

Picturequestion · 02/12/2023 20:22

So I was just chatting to DH about something we have paid someone else to do for us. At great expense. For example a menu for a big event.

We are going through a rocky patch. He is getting therapy to work out why he gets so triggered by certain things which can lead to him getting disproportionally angry and at times very verbally aggressive (name calling for example).

Discussion yesterday and an agreement that neither of us should give the other unsolicited advice or criticise each other. He has asked me to make a reasonable change in how we co parent and I have asked him to continue to work on being less reactive and angry.

So back to the conversation about the ‘menu’.

We were talking through it and the different aspects - what we liked and didn’t like. I said about one bit ‘I feel really ‘meh’ about this bit’. He said - in a slightly irritated tone ‘can I ask that when we discuss these things that you talk more positively.’

i stayed very calm. I’m getting very skilled at that! I said that I was just expressing how I feel about something. He said that I had asked him to change how he talks (I.e. when he’s angry and aggressive) because of how it makes me feel and so he is asking me to change how I talk because it dampens his enthusiasm for the ‘menu’

I very calmly said that I didn’t think it was equivalent and that I need to be able to express myself and my feelings and thoughts. I wasnt being critical of him or aggressive or morose. I was positive about the bulk of the ‘menu’. I was just stating my reaction to a part of the menu.

He was annoyed that I didn’t agree with him and huffed and walked off.

AIBU to think that he doesn’t have the right to ask me not to express my emotional reaction to a part of something that we are paying someone to provide.

Or am I right to stand my ground because I shouldn’t have to monitor what I say just in case it dampens his enthusiasm (it might have easily been that he felt ‘meh’ as well).?

No LTBs please. That’s the next step if he doesn’t stop the aggressive outbursts. Obviously this is a micro event in a much more complex situation but just based on the information here I’d be keen to hear views.

Thanks in advance to anyone that has read and comprehended all of that. I feel quite certain that I am being reasonable but the strength of his annoyance makes it hard to know for sure. Would be great to have different perspectives.

OP posts:
buckeejit · 02/12/2023 21:15

I get where you're coming from but things are clearly very tense & there's built up micro aggressions. Perhaps he feels that you're passive aggressively condemning part or all of the menu & if he's driven it may be taking this personally.

I'd agree he shouldn't police how you talk. He may be being an arse because you've asked him to alter how he says things. You sound reasonable so I'd just keep going as you are but check you're not trying to point score, (I speak from experience by doing it myself unawares when me & dh are in a tight spot).

Good luck

AutumnFroglets · 02/12/2023 21:16

He is an abusive angry man. Abusive angry men learn new behaviours and ways to be abusive in therapy, especially joint therapy. It is a known phenomenon.

If he continues to be abusive and angry towards you then he needs to leave until he can control himself like the majority of decent adults. Then he gets to return.

What is emotional abuse?
There are a variety of types of behaviour that could be classed as emotional abuse. These include:
Intimidation and threats. This* *could be things like shouting, acting aggressively or just generally making you feel scared. This is often done as a way of making a person feel small and stopping them from standing up for themselves.
Criticism. This could be things like namecalling or making lots of unpleasant or sarcastic comments. This can really lower a person’s self-esteem and self-confidence.
Undermining. This might include things like dismissing your opinion. It can also involve making you doubt your own opinion by acting as if you're being oversensitive if you do complain, disputing your version of events or by suddenly being really nice to you after being cruel.
Being made to feel guilty. This can range from outright emotional blackmail (threats to kill oneself or lots of emotional outbursts) to sulking all the time or giving you the silent treatment as a way of manipulating you.
Telling you what you can and can’t do. As the examples above make clear, emotional abuse is generally about control. Sometimes this is explicit. Does your partner tell you when and where you can go out, or even stop you from seeing certain people? Do they try to control how you dress or how you style your hair?

https://www.relate.org.uk/get-help/emotional-abuse

FourteenTog · 02/12/2023 21:19

Zaney40 · 02/12/2023 20:50

I'm starting to think that a big chunk of mumsnetters have just broke up from an abusive relationship, they've got time in their hands being newly single and they spend it by replying to every post saying you should definitely not work on anything in your relationship and instead just LTB.

Patronizing much? Maybe they have wisdom in their hearts and something between their ears. Odds are many women have experienced abuse. And can help others.

AllAroundMyCat · 02/12/2023 21:30

The fact that you've stated 'co-parenting' was enough for me.

Co-parenting is what divorced parents do , not in a loving relationship.

Holidayhell22 · 02/12/2023 21:31

So does your dh want you to lie?
Would he prefer you to say ‘ Oh yes that part is great.’
Then when it goes tits up he can lay the blame at your door.
I would point this out to him. Ask him if he just wants you to lie.

samqueens · 02/12/2023 22:07

Picturequestion · 02/12/2023 21:15

Thank you all.

It’s good to know I’m not being unreasonable.

It is very hard work at the moment and yes, it shouldn’t be.

My massive dilemma is the DC. He does more of the childcare and domestic stuff so it would be at least a 50/50 spilt. Not sure I can cope with not seeing DC half the time. So going to give it my very best shot but I won’t just sit back and take it.

The therapy is just him. I have my own.
He is exploring why he’s like this and facing some uncomfortable truths.

It’s the best we can do currently but working hard at it. I have a deadline.

I hear you. It’s incredibly hard and no solution is the perfect solution… The price is just too high whatever way we cut it, but still we have to choose how to manage and and how to go forward. It’s really tough. I’m so sorry you’re going through it - you aren’t alone, I promise.

concernedalot · 02/12/2023 22:12

Haven't RTFT but what a miserable life OP. I couldn't live like this honestly, I hope you find a way out of it. What's wrong with having an opinion about a menu whether it's positive or negative, you should be able to communicate openly with each other - sounds like it's gone too far for me

MythicBish · 02/12/2023 22:12

This isnt how marriage/love should be.

Haydenn · 02/12/2023 22:15

You’ve told him no more aggression and he’s now entered into a tit for tat with passive aggression. Can you work with your therapist to write him a letter explaining why this isn’t acceptable either

ElevenSeven · 02/12/2023 22:20

Not sure I can cope with not seeing DC half the time. So going to give it my very best shot but I won’t just sit back and take it.

I would think it would be nigh on impossible for your DC to be living under the same roof as you both and not pick up on the tension and/or arguing.

If it was one of them being treated this way, would you advise them to stay?

You all deserve more.

Original poster
Picturequestion · 02/12/2023 22:25

samqueens · 02/12/2023 22:07

I hear you. It’s incredibly hard and no solution is the perfect solution… The price is just too high whatever way we cut it, but still we have to choose how to manage and and how to go forward. It’s really tough. I’m so sorry you’re going through it - you aren’t alone, I promise.

Show quote history

Thank you. That made me cry. In a good way. 🙏

OP posts:
PickAChew · 02/12/2023 22:27

He doesn't want you to express an opinion. His.goal for the therapy, unlike yours, is that you learn to stay in your box.

Original poster
Picturequestion · 02/12/2023 22:34

PickAChew · 02/12/2023 22:27

He doesn't want you to express an opinion. His.goal for the therapy, unlike yours, is that you learn to stay in your box.

From what he said he is delving into childhood pain and understanding what triggers him and what this then has him doing. I’ll see. I’m keeping a diary and have a deadline. Leaving comes at a huge cost to me. I will be devastated not to see DC every day. It will break my heart. We are doing ok parenting wise and getting on ok as a family and DC seem to be thriving at the moment. I will also loose out financially now and in the future. He has no pension. He will be awarded half of mine. Grossly unfair for reasons I won’t drive into but if I could have DC more, I wouldn’t care about the money but I can’t face that at the moment.

OP posts:
Original poster
Picturequestion · 02/12/2023 22:36

Holidayhell22 · 02/12/2023 21:31

So does your dh want you to lie?
Would he prefer you to say ‘ Oh yes that part is great.’
Then when it goes tits up he can lay the blame at your door.
I would point this out to him. Ask him if he just wants you to lie.

I will talk to him about it again and ask him this. I think he will see that he was being unreasonable.

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 02/12/2023 22:48

Oh, fuck that for a game of soldiers.

The very fact that you have thoughts and voice is enough for him to despise you for them.

If you said 'That's a wonderful idea', it would be wrong because you were being sarcastic, fake, an idiot for thinking that, and a thousand other things that would make you wrong. And if you said you'd rather boil your own eyes than have goat's cheese tarts for a vegetarian option, you'd be wrong because you're being negative, fake, an idiot and a thousand other things. And if you said nothing, you'd be in the wrong. If you made eye contact it would be wrong. If you smiled - wrong and threatening/attacking. No eye contact - wrong. Not smiling - wrong and threatening/attacking.

You cannot do anything right because that is his narrative to legitimise his treatment of you. Referring to the conversation again will be wrong, but he'll probably bring it back up in a few days as an illustration of how awful/stupid/despicable you are. Bet he also chucks in that you're being abusive and controlling.

He's got nothing but contempt for you.

Fuck. That.

Amybelle88 · 02/12/2023 23:56

Fuck that.

Way too much stress and grief. What is it that's worth holding onto so much that this much draining work goes into it?

Original poster
Picturequestion · 03/12/2023 00:03

Amybelle88 · 02/12/2023 23:56

Fuck that.

Way too much stress and grief. What is it that's worth holding onto so much that this much draining work goes into it?

Like I said, I can’t bear the loss of seeing DC every day. I’d get 50/50 maximum so it’s a massive, heartbreaking loss.

If no DC or if I’d have them 80/20 I’d be gone for sure. But he won’t leave (I’ve asked before) and so I would need to leave and I wouldn’t be able to take DC as he does more childcare than me due to work arrangements. I think I’d be way more unhappy without seeing DC everyday. There is a hell of a lot more I’d tolerate to be honest, as long as it didn’t effect them.

OP posts:
AutumnFroglets · 03/12/2023 00:55

Then I'm not sure why you are posting. You refuse to leave and want to work on your marriage but he doesn't want to. He's only finding further ammunition via "therapy" to shoot you down so your self confidence and self esteem crumble away until you are too broken. He doesn't go to improve himself or the marriage.

You are not going mad in your thinking regarding the conversation in your op, it's him playing mind games. But you are mad to think this marriage will ever get better than this.

boscabosco · 03/12/2023 01:28

You are wrong here in the way you have posed the question. His way of expressing himself is different from your way. You don't want him to do it his way and vice versa. You don't need therapy to figure this out. You don't want any LTB. There is a middle ground to be reached, which you both can do do if you both sit and speak to each other.

buckeejit · 03/12/2023 09:43

Rereading your posts, it's clear you're not really interested in your husband's happiness right now. That will have an impact on your interactions & will impact your dc if there's tension in the house.

I think you need to be invested in wanting the marriage to work for each other, not just because you want to see dc daily. I'm pretty sure if the situation were the other way round there would be much talk of what's best for dc rather than what their father wants.

Hope you manage to progress things

Haydenn · 03/12/2023 09:54

What are your work arrangements like? Are you being able to do less because of commute time or because of hours? Are you potentially able to look at compressed hours or a flexible working request?

is there something you can look to do over the next 6 months or so to move yourself into a better position? Given how manipulative he sounds I wonder if that is what he has done in order to trap you.

CurlewKate · 03/12/2023 10:02

Relationships should not be hard work. Sometimes external circumstances make things temporarily difficult of course. But usually you should feel at least contentment with the other person. And under no circumstances should either person have to put up with angry outbursts and name calling as a routine thing. Leave.

ElevenSeven · 03/12/2023 10:45

I think I’d be way more unhappy without seeing DC everyday. There is a hell of a lot more I’d tolerate to be honest, as long as it didn’t effect them.

There’s no way this isn’t already affecting them. What a miserable household to live in, and a terrible model for their own relationships. Leave.

BrassOlive · 03/12/2023 10:56

This is a crystal clear example of one of the reasons why couples counselling and mediation are not recommended when you're in an abusive relationship.

The abusing partner will weaponise the language and process against their victim. I'm not sure where you found this therapist but the moment the pair of you disclosed that he's aggressive towards you, his intimate partner, they should have signposted you to domestic abuse services, not taken your money.

Uncooperativefingers · 03/12/2023 11:04

AutumnFroglets · 03/12/2023 00:55

Then I'm not sure why you are posting. You refuse to leave and want to work on your marriage but he doesn't want to. He's only finding further ammunition via "therapy" to shoot you down so your self confidence and self esteem crumble away until you are too broken. He doesn't go to improve himself or the marriage.

You are not going mad in your thinking regarding the conversation in your op, it's him playing mind games. But you are mad to think this marriage will ever get better than this.

She is posting because she feels like she is in am impossible situation and it can help to get ideas from other to think things through. In the thick of a situation you can't always see the wood for the trees, especially when the situation is going through a period of change.

Just because she isn't jumping to act on the prevailing LTB options does not mean posting is not worthwhile or helpful. She doesn't need to act on any advice given.