How to deal with narcissist in parents group

[motheroffour1980]

I find it hard to interact with dominating narcissistic woman in our school’s mum group.

I am a more quiet and laid back person and I generally get on with people and don’t judge. So do most of the mums I meet typically.

However there is one category of person that I cannot bare to be around and that’s loud, abrasive, domineering, narcissistic know-it-all, shallow types.

My kids school parents get together occasionally and we all get on well enough. They are all lovely and even if we don’t all have exactly the same interests or agree on everything, we generally get on which is lovely.

However, there is one mum who is loud, nosey, overbearing and overly opinionated to a point where hers is the only one that matters.

She talks about other peoples private lives, their businesses and gossips about people who are not present getting divorced, etc. She will do this openly in front of the whole group, when many of us don’t even know her that well. It is really uncomfortable. She also bitches about some of the teachers in the school, in front of some of the mums who are actually also teachers in the school.

The main problem though is that no one challenges her, including myself in fairness, but that’s because everyone seems to gush at her and laugh along and enable her.

Other than that I know these other mums are normally lovely and wouldn’t engage in negative trash talk conversations, it’s only when she is there she brings out the worst in conversation.

It’s so frustrating. Why do these people have to come along and ruin the dynamic of groups. I foresee the group heading down a cliquey gossipy path now, when previously it had been a nice bunch.

Does anyone else find this infuriating? Not only the abrasive characters but also the weak, brown nosing, lick ass types of people who suck up to narcissists and allow them to thrive in the first place?

Please advise. What do you do in these situations when you really dislike someone and want to call them out for being nasty, but no one else does?

I’m not convinced OP really understands what a narcissist is…

Anyway, either stand up to her, screen her out of your head, or don’t go to events she attends. I never went out with groups of my children’s friends mothers. It didn’t impact them remotely

Of course you have thoughts but it's up to you what you do with them. You can decide to challenge her "That's inappropriate and none of our business" or raise it in a lighter way "Gosh, I'm glad I'm here so you can't gossip about me" or try to avoid her. Maybe some of the other 'lovely' mums will back you up or privately agree or talk about you behind your back - I guess you have to assess the risk.

A bit harsh. OP is asking for advice and it's anonymous, I'd rather be criticised anonymously than to a parents group for sure.

So tell us more about how it happens, then. She just starts off, holds forth - "I think John is having an affair"?? Or is it more comments made within a discussion? I agree with you that mean spirited gossip isn't nice and it must feel frustrating if the culture of the group is like this.

But there is always the potential that her comments aren't that bad or that you are taking them a bit hard- that's why we are all asking questions and inviting you to reflect on your own judgements, OP, not trying to be dismissive or mean to you.

The best positive culture-builders I know among our school mums do things like the following...

Listen to people individually with real attention and active positive regard. Not saying hi and moving on at the school gate, make themselves available and wanting to hear about your day.
Remember stuff that's going on. How's your dad's operation? Did Margot feel OK about the piano exam in the end? I thought of you the other day, there's an exhibition on about blah blah which I know you like.
Invite the group to things - by talking and building gradually to friendship. Shall we have a coffee after drop off on Friday? And meticulously invite others - deliberately not being cliquey.

I reckon with a bit of that gentleness and kindness your group might change. But it's a drip feed of work every day.

End of the day, you can't change her. You can only change you.

The label "narcissist" gets bandied about a lot but are you sure she is not just extravert but with an unfortunate tendency to be nosey and to gossip? Definitely you should call out the gossip and have nothing to with it, and deflect any nosey conversations too.

I've just realised... if it wasn't for the slagging people off I'd say this is about me. I'm pretty smug and loud at times. Parenting is hard and you know if I've done something well I'm gonna mention it to balance it out against the f*ck ups. Plus working from home I get way too excited when someone actually talks to me.

How do they handle me? Humouring, pitty, their own smugness, sparodic avoidance, alcohol, and anonymous complaining on mumsnet.

This is the second thread I have read where supposedly one nasty woman is spoiling the whole friendship group and it would all be perfect if she would just disappear. I genuinely can’t imagine being so invested that I’d give someone I am not related or married to, that much headspace.

You say you don’t judge people and that it “isn’t classy to bitch about people” but in ONE post you manage to call this woman dominating, narcissistic, loud, abrasive, domineering, a know-it-all, shallow, nosey, overbearing, overly opinionated, gossipy, bitchy, infuriating, and nasty.

You then also call her unkind, a horrible person, difficult, hugely disgusting, inappropriate, challenging, trash talking, mean, and a nasty judgemental bitch.

It's probably best if you just avoid her as much as possible, change the subject if you don't want to say anything directly, and accept that maybe other people do like her and she's not the whole problem. If other people don't like her and want to stand up to her they can.

Yeah this. The reason why people are getting annoyed OP is that your post sounded incredibly judgy - someone was loud, opinionated, know-it-all and shallow. Whereas you describe yourself as one of those quiet types who don't judge. You might want to have a wee think about that and own your judgy pants.

I read the op feeling a bit like she didn’t sound too bad really so I’m glad everyone else is saying the same thing!!

I find people with a “be kind” mentality a bit dull - we do discuss stuff with our friends right?! I’m getting divorced and would not be at all upset if people talked about it - I would be a bit surprised if they hadn’t?! Because they know me and it’s a big event! If they say something mean about me then they probably don’t like me or they actually think it but that’s really none of my business.

I hope my friends think I’ve done the right thing and would not criticise me on that basis, or that they would tell me if I was being a dick. But maybe they don’t - none of us is perfect and it is what it is.

let it go op - you don’t need to judge her and find her wanting. Maybe the others think it’s interesting? If you don’t - change the topic!

Just to stir up trouble, I know someone who is pretty bitchy and gossipy, but also really well liked. I think the trick is that she's very funny with it and she has a knack for saying what everyone is thinking anyway. She's also got a very kind side too.

(Although I wouldn't want to piss her off!)

I really don't like your description of weak, brown people etc.

You don't sound very nice yourself.

Does anyone else find this infuriating? Not only the abrasive characters but also the weak, brown nosing, lick ass types of people who suck up to narcissists and allow them to thrive in the first place?

I have to say, you don't sound that laid back or non-judgemental

Clearly this woman has got under your skin, and it bothers you that other people don't feel the same. Sometimes that happens and we just have to live with it (and try to avoid them!)

Blimey, I think she has triggered you in some way op, no-one is perfect, can't you just focus more on her good qualities, you describe yourself as laid back, but your posts aren't conveying that

In what way is she a narcissist?

Exactly! There is nothing in the tone of the OP suggesting that she is a laid back person. More like a quietly seething person who lacks the courage to speak up but is simultaneously annoyed that other people around her isn't doing just that. A laid back person wouldn't even start this thread.

OP, you've brought this upon yourself.

If the fact that she comes across loud and opinionated wasn't a problem for you then you shouldn't have mentioned it.

If it was just about her bragging about her life and gossiping about others making other mums feel awkward and introducing a toxic tone to your meetings then I can understand that. It's not just about that though based on your comments, you don't like anything about her. In terms of bitching you're not better than her either, you've just bitched about her to the Internet behind her back. Pot kettle much! Don't paint yourself more favourably than her here because you're not.

I think the only way to deal with this is minimum engagement, change topics to safe and then if this doesn't work then remove yourself from a toxic conversation. If it's as bad as you say, other people will follow. When the person in question doesn't have an audience it might click for her where she's gone wrong or she'll seek different audience.

If other mums are not doing this then perhaps you're just particularly averse to her at the moment. It happens. It's up to you to limit your exposure to her if so.

I can understand to some extent what you're saying, but I don't think I'd enjoy a friendship with either of you IRL based on your comments. It doesn't sound like a lovely friendship group.

Describing yourself as 'laid back' is literally the exact opposite of laid back. My exhusband is genuinely laid back - he wouldn't have an opinion on this person, he wouldn't voice it if he did. She would be water off a ducks back to him.

Don’t call people you don’t like narcissistic. Yes you could offend someone who actually has that diagnosis. You are using the word narcissistic as a slur, which tbf happens a lot on here. Would you refer to autism or Bi Polar in the same derogatory way?
You either need to grow a backbone and call her out or leave the group. If she is as nasty as you make out then tell her so.

Wow OP, you don’t sound very kind! You’re right it’s not uncommon to come across someone we don’t personally like. It would be really unusual to like absolutely everyone we meet in a group setting. If you’re looking for advice - mine would be to just get on with your life and ignore them as much as posssible, not start posting about them online slagging them off as ‘a bitch’.

@TheYearOfSmallThings In what way is she a narcissist?

Sorry-that message was for @motheroffour1980

Doesn't sound like a Narcissist to me either. Loud and overbearing, maybe. But that does not mean she is a Narcissist. There is nothing in what you said in your OP that suggests she is a Narcissist and I wish people wouldn't bandy that word about, just because you don't like someone. For those of us who have had a Narcissist in our lives it makes it even more difficult for others to understand what it is really like.

For one thing, Narcissists tend to be all sweetness and light with most people except those they are close to, and outsiders will generally tell you that 'The Narcissist' is such a lovely person. This woman sounds NOTHING like a Narcissist, if she's as loud and opinionated as you say, in a group of School Mum's

Yeah as others have said, you aren't really giving 'chilled out' vibes especially when accusing the people you do like of 'brown nosing'.

Maybe they don't call her out because they like her. I'm sure at least some will be feeling the same way as you though. But there might be others who think that, while they don't like or trust her, she does at least liven things up!

Maybe no one calls her out and just smile and nod as they know any arguing back is only going to result in massive drama that they can't be arsed with. I think often people like this are hoping to get a rise out of others. They like an argument! So if you can't be arsed with the fall out, then stay quiet.

You’ll have to go and sit at the toilet table.