How to deal with narcissist in parents group

[motheroffour1980]

I find it hard to interact with dominating narcissistic woman in our school’s mum group.

I am a more quiet and laid back person and I generally get on with people and don’t judge. So do most of the mums I meet typically.

However there is one category of person that I cannot bare to be around and that’s loud, abrasive, domineering, narcissistic know-it-all, shallow types.

My kids school parents get together occasionally and we all get on well enough. They are all lovely and even if we don’t all have exactly the same interests or agree on everything, we generally get on which is lovely.

However, there is one mum who is loud, nosey, overbearing and overly opinionated to a point where hers is the only one that matters.

She talks about other peoples private lives, their businesses and gossips about people who are not present getting divorced, etc. She will do this openly in front of the whole group, when many of us don’t even know her that well. It is really uncomfortable. She also bitches about some of the teachers in the school, in front of some of the mums who are actually also teachers in the school.

The main problem though is that no one challenges her, including myself in fairness, but that’s because everyone seems to gush at her and laugh along and enable her.

Other than that I know these other mums are normally lovely and wouldn’t engage in negative trash talk conversations, it’s only when she is there she brings out the worst in conversation.

It’s so frustrating. Why do these people have to come along and ruin the dynamic of groups. I foresee the group heading down a cliquey gossipy path now, when previously it had been a nice bunch.

Does anyone else find this infuriating? Not only the abrasive characters but also the weak, brown nosing, lick ass types of people who suck up to narcissists and allow them to thrive in the first place?

Please advise. What do you do in these situations when you really dislike someone and want to call them out for being nasty, but no one else does?

Well you can either avoid her or challenge her really. Don't just whine anonymously about her, that's no better than what she's doing. Worse really, because at least she's not anonymous.

You don't need to be aggressive or rude about it.

Next time she starts slagging someone off I would (and have before) said "I really don't like to talk about other people when they're not here to say their piece or defend themselves, so can we just not?" Then change the subject.

If it's about teachers at school (I'm amazed the mums who're also teachers haven't said this frankly) then similar to above but along the lines of 'this is really not appropriate, and it's pretty unfair on Mary and Gill as they work there so now they're in a bit of an awkward position. Why don't you discuss with the school?'

If it's gossiping about people marriages etc - similar. "No one knows what goes on behind closed doors and I'd rather not gossip about people behind their backs. Why don't you ask Susan yourself, if you're curious about Jim and the barmaid?"

You need to politely and assertively call it out, avoid her, or you'll have to put up and shut up!

I'm the quiet laidback type too. I'm never going to be one of the loud confident mums or in the cliques. (Mumsnet doesn't like this term to describe school parents, but they do exist!).

My advice would be step back from the mums group a bit, you can't change people's personalities but you don't need to hang round with folk that you don't like.
You can still be civil, friendly, but you don't have to meet up with them (as much). You don't want to get into bitching about any of them, it causes problems.

How old are your children?
You can make different parent friends at school as your kids grow up, through different hobbies, etc.

I guess I would wonder why people might find discussing anothers marital affairs or financial problems entertaining?
Judging by the responses here maybe more people think it’s acceptable than I originally thought.
Maybe it’s just horrible human nature to find entertainment in other peoples problems and possibly more common than I thought.
Responses have been enlightening.

Is it just me who finds the current trend for accusing anyone who doesn’t agree with you of being ‘triggered’ immensely tedious? It’s so condescending and obviously just you trying to make the fact that someone thinks differently to you a problem with them instead of just a plain old different viewpoint.

They’re not triggered. They just don’t agree with you. Try listening to their views and considering them instead of immediately accusing them of being ‘triggered’ as if that’s some kind of failing on their part. You don’t have to agree with them but please stop being so defensive and leaping to use that awful phrase. It doesn’t have nearly the gotcha effect that people seem to think it does.

People who post an opinion different to yours are not ‘triggered’ - they are merely disagreeing or posing an alternative POV.

To claim people are ‘triggered’ is demeaning and seems to used in order to disregard their opinion.

Yes, I think that's a bit of a weak basis to call her a narcissist.

Moving on to the meat of the issue - what to do. It's pretty simple. Don't join in. When she is saying or doing inappropriate things, either politely say, "ooh, I don't think we should be talking about that" or casually get up and wander off. By sitting there silently, you are as much to blame as everyone else.

Then, instead of feeling obliged to have this one amorphous group, start developing personal friendships with a smaller group. If there are three or four women you get on particularly well with, suggest a meet up separately.

Incidentally, I was tangentially in a similar position a few years ago. Was invited along to something with some other mums, not all of whom I knew that well. One was going on and on about one child's parent being in jail etc. It was all hot gossip and very unpleasant. So I said, "Oh, how do you even know this? I'm not sure it's something we should all be speculating about" and she said, "Oh, the child told me herself, she's in my brownies group". I was quite shocked so said something like, "oh, are you sure you should be talking about something she told you like that". She was dismissive. So I quietly sat back, then went to the bathroom and managed to manoeuvre myself into a different seat on my return. I also didn't accept that same invite the following year.

Being crass / opinionated doesn't make you a narcissist, a word which has become woefully overused these days.

Anyway, you've got two options -

Do nothing say nothing or tell her to knock it off when she starts.

She also can’t bare anyone with a different opinion to hers.

Just like you then @motheroffour1980! 😂

I do get what you mean - she dominates the space and is also doing so in a style that you don't like.

Like Vroomfondles says, I once had a parent-group conflict with a very exuberant and talkative parent but, as time has passed, I have recognised how this particular parent is amazing at getting things done. She also has a very generous spirit, which makes her quite easy to like, as long as you accept her for how she is: loud, extrovert and flying by the seat of her pants!

Gossip can also be fun, but there is a limit. Your description suggests that Ms HotGossip's talk tends towards the seedy end of things.

Why not challenge it? The next time there is a lull in her description of how X found Y with Z on their kitchen table just start up a new topic of conversation. Or challenge directly:

'Well this is all intriguing but we just don't know if it's true! Y and Z aren't here to set us straight, so we probably shouldn't repeat it. Any plans for the summer, Jane?'

But, if you do so, you must be prepared for people to also form views about you.

Well some responses here have shown a bit of hostility and anger, that’s why I used the word triggered.
Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, I just don’t understand the need for the angry tone.
Based on how people are reacting to me rather than the mum in question who is slandering other mums and teachers with her gossip and meanness tells me everything.
Perhaps more people find her behaviour socially acceptable and are more like her than I thought. So thank you for the responses.

You aren't reading what anyone is saying. You're simply deciding they're bad people because they're questioning you and making up the worst motives.

I'm now not convinced this woman is as dreadful as you say she is. What you're saying about other posters isn't accurate but if someone who couldn't check the posts heard you say it...

Of course people find entertainment in other peoples problems - that is literally what tabloids do, what most 'celeb gossip' is based around, how is that a surprise to you?!? Its also, let's face it, what a lot of AIBU on mumsnet is based around too.

No one is ‘triggered’ 😄
A ‘mums group’ sounds shite, why not just be around people you like?

Would you like a group of your friends or colleagues to discuss details of your own flaws, financial woes, your husband’s torrid affair, or worse your kids failings?

Based on how people are reacting to me rather than the mum in question who is slandering other mums and teachers with her gossip and meanness tells me everything.

Because nobody knows the mum in question or can hear any of what she is saying, we only have your word for it that she is doing, so of course people are reacting to you rather than someone they only have your (ott and judgey) description of.

no one challenges her, including myself

If you are not willing to challenge her yourself then don't be a hypocrite and criticise others.

the weak, brown nosing, lick ass types of people who suck up to narcissists and allow them to thrive in the first place

That is you too OP. You are just as enabling as everyone else.

It is hugely disgusting yet no one says anything

see my points above - don't be a hypocrite

perhaps they all can’t stand her either

Possibly

I don’t want to rock the boat as I will see these people for years to come

Maybe everyone else feels the same.

You can either:

1. Suck it up - status quo
2. Challenge directly - risky but might get quick results
3. Challenge more subtly - the mature sensible but slower approach

She sounds like a Queen bee type, the ones who are loudmouths usually don’t have as perfect a life as they make out hence trying to control Mum/parent groups. It’s their way of trying to make themselves feel better about themselves. I would not call her out on it as inevitably you will look like the bad guy whilst the others take her side. Don’t let her wind you up and concentrate on the Mums you do like and avoid her where possible.

Literally every story on mumsnet is written from one point of view and it is down to readers to decide who or what they think is right or best in any situation.

So you’ve not said anything to her directly, others appear to like and encourage her, but you think it’s fine to come on to a forum and say she’s a horrible person? I think that’s just as bad TBH.

Ignore her, move away, don’t engage in the conversation. Change the subject. Challenge her politely, “come on Sandra, that’s not really any of our business”.,“I think Mr X is pretty good actually”, “goodness if you really think that you should have a word with school, it could be a safeguarding concern.” If she says something about the school or a teacher which is really inappropriate then tell the school and they can deal with it under their policies.

Other than that live your life and stay away from her if you don’t like her. Doesn’t mean she’s any more horrible than anyone else though.

'I'm not judgy at all, except I'm just about to negatively judge this person I don't like, which is absolutely fine. I'm allowed to judge her and state her because I'm not a judgy person.'

I'm not judgmental, fortunately because most people are kind and decent, regardless of our differences.
Unless I meet a nasty judgmental bitch who says awful things about decent people, then of course I will have thoughts on it.

😂😂😂 yes, its different when you judge others. That's ok.
Op - you ARE judgemental - you are judging this person.

In light of how sensitive you are to the responses on here, I am also going to suggest that this woman isn't as bad as you think she is.

are you one of those women who hates any "real" talk and wants to keep social situations like these to very top level chit chat about what to feed the DC and whether or not you've done your Christmas shopping?

But you are just as bad. You sit there, silently judging but laughing along.

Why do people gossip? Because sometimes their life is crappy and it makes them feel better that other people are having a crappy time.

Because sometimes people are awful.

Because it gives them a social currency to share- you can all join in together tutting at someone's misfortune.

Because judging what mistakes other people have made makes people think twice about making the same mistake?

Because sometimes, kids are little idiots and it feels good to say it to other adults instead of holding those feelings in.

I dunno- lots of reasons. She sounds a right pain the arse but you also sound like a little Puritan. She's loud with her judging and you are quiet with your judging.

I don't mind the loud, opinionated bit. Though no one likes everyone.

But slagging people off I really don't like. So I would challenge on that. I'd just politely say, I think Mrs x is nice, or teaching is difficult they're doing ok. Or gosh I hope you dont say that about us when we're not around.

I think things like that can remind the person they're going a bit far without starting a row.

Of you just don't like them you're entitled to that view then start a side conversation with someone else. It doesn't have to be everyone talking together at once which I think can happen.