To wonder how anyone can be a teacher?

[Howdaretheydisciplinerudekids]

I think I am quite an understanding parent when it comes to my kids schools. However, I do contact the schools whenever I have a concern. I am always polite and understanding of school issues but flag things up when necessary.

However, I hear how some parents speak to and about their children’s teachers and I am pretty disgusted and wonder how anyone remains in teaching. I have so many stories from friends about the crap they put up with from headteachers, parents and children. Who else has similar stories?

1. A friend of mine was told on more than one occasion by a child that he wanted her dead and was going to shoot her. Her headteacher didn’t even ask if she was ok.
2. The same child regularly used to throw things in the classroom and trash the classroom. The headteacher refused to get involved and instead blamed the teacher for their being equipment on the floor (that the child had thrown) and asked why she hadn’t picked it up. The child was still throwing things (this time aimed at the class teacher) at the time.
3. I have heard many occasions of friends who have been out on capability plans for the most minor things. It would seem that bullying of staff from leadership is absolutely rife. For example, one teacher friend told me about the staff having a staff training day about a certain way of delivering maths. Part of the day was spent then planning maths in the said way. The headteacher went into maths lessons and then called all of the staff together because she didn’t like how they were teaching maths and told them all off. She said they should have ignored all training. Several friends have given me the same sort of stories.
4. My teacher friends are always making excuses why they can’t go out. They have too much work to do. They are too stressed. They are off sick. They have marking to do, leSsons to plan, forms to fill in, statements to write, parents to contact, documents to complete, emails to send etc etc. Then when they have done all that, they have to actually teach a class for 7 hours. They get no let up in that time. They have to be physically and mentally involved and face verbal and sometimes physical abuse, with no chance to recover.
5. Then they have parents to deal with. Parents who complain constantly because their child has been told off. Parents who constantly criticise teachers because their child, who has done something wrong, is then worrying about it. Or they have 2 sets of parents both claiming that their child is being bullied by the other. Or parents who have fallen out, expecting the schools to separate the children because their grown ups can’t resolve their own arguments.
6. One relative of mine, was put under disciplinary procedures because they dared to speak sternly to a child who had been stealing from them. They did not even raise their voice. However, they now have a safeguarding concern about them because a member of staff heard them telling the child how upset they were to have had their personal items stolen by them, and the member of staff didn’t like their tone of voice. My poor relative was in bits over this accusation because they had taught for nearly 30 years and now felt like they had been blamed for being a victim of crime. My relative had to take early retirement.
7. Another relative was teaching In A primary school and was filmed by a child on their phone, and it was shared around social media. My relative then told the child how upset they had been about this. However, instead of the child receiving any sort of consequence, instead my friend had to apologise to the child, for telling the child how upset they were. Sadly, another friend tried to commit suicide after all of the constant monitoring and accountability became too much for her. My friends and relatives who work in schools tell me about the lack of funding in their schools.

I wonder the same thing. My partner’s daughter is a recently qualified teacher (2 years) and has had many things like the above happen to her and her colleagues. She went home in tears most nights for months. Fortunately she’s now changed schools and the ethos and new head teacher are much more supportive and the parents and children don't seem to be such arseholes. I don’t know how she stuck it at the other school, I couldn’t have done it without getting arrested.

It's a tough job- I've taught for over 20 years in a challenging school. Thankfully I have not personally experienced what you described and the leadership team look after the staff. I have heard horror stories from colleagues elsewhere though.

I’m so glad I retired early. Given my time again I’d never go into teaching though I mostly enjoyed it. Should have followed my first career choice though, I’d have made a lot more money.

Teachers don’t do much teaching any more. It is mostly crowd control and behavior management.

It's very ironic that parents are going to be the main reason there won't be any teachers left. I'm guessing the don't care as by then their kids will be grown and it won't effect them (although it already is). Much like climate change too I suppose. Feeling quite cynical today but I think society is becoming all about me, me, me and to hell with anyone else and the repercussions.

It’s totally dreadful, just as awful as you have described it OP, sometimes worse. It’s completely messed up my mental health.

Everyday I curse the fact that I didn’t train to do something else.

I feel completely trapped, and like I’m destined to Teach until I drop, and I know so many others who feel the same way. I just have no clue what else I could do for a living and earn the same as what I do now, without having to do any kind of retraining or take further qualifications.

If ever I find an Education-related role which offers a salary equivalent to my standard classroom Teacher salary, they often require you to have had senior leadership experience, or at least significant middle management experience, which lots of us don’t have. I found a very rare opportunity l felt I was a great match for last year which offered my current salary, and thought I had won the golden ticket. I took so much care and effort with my application and was then sent an email saying they’ve had an unprecedented number of applicants which runs into several hundreds, and they’re struggling to even long list. I was still confident, but I didn’t even get an interview. There are just so many of us totally desperate to escape that there’s far too much competition when anything half decent pops up.

I’m up now at 1.30, as I’ve been off sick today, and feel like shit and anticipate I’ll be off again tomorrow, and have been preparing resources for use in cover lessons for just over 3 hours. It’s a bloody joke.

I don't think all state schools are that bad. My dc are in private but I'm always scornfully told that I'm wasting my money and the local state schools would be just as good, and any private school threads are always full of anecdotes about how good their dc's schools are and that they don't have staff or behaviour or funding issues.

I teach in a private school and have never had any issues like you described. I think that it’s a head teacher problem in a lot of those examples.

Definitely bad management. It's not like that where I teach. Staff are well supported and very loyal. Can't think of anyone in recent years who has left the profession other than to retire having reached retirement age (and not necessarily then). We're primary and have some challenging children but we work hard to support them and their teachers, and have a track record of success with such children. It's all about good clear policies which all staff follow and supportive management.

No, mostly, it's a money and state education system problem.

The kids who assault others, the kids with needs so severe they can't even spell their own name in Y10, the very bright ones and the ones who have no interest in education and whose parents couldn't care less are all in the same room together.

There is no money to exclude, no money to be able to afford an Inadequate rating (to attract the best staff, or provide an education when pupil numbers drop), no money for modern equipment to make teaching remotely relevant. Hell, we currently have no budget for glue sticks or paper, let alone enough servers to deal with new AI-driven systems, devices which may get a child to pay attention to us more than their phones, no money to take kids out of the local area. What we DO have money for is a cheap messaging system allowing parents 24/7 access to us, to increase the "customer experience" (i.e. to tick the box that we allow parents to communicate with staff whenever they want).

Parents in private schools care more about education, hence why they pay out insane amounts of money for the privilege. While you have demanding parents, and parents who think money should buy their child a qualification, they are far less likely to abuse you for fear of exclusion, far less likely to ghost you when you try to discuss issues and far more likely to involve tutors if a child falls behind.

OP, it's shit right now.

Kids don't care, parents care even less.

Money is so tight further up the chain that kids get unconditional college offers and therefore don't give two shits about their GCSEs beyond Maths and English.

There are no teachers and supply is extremely rare for money reasons and because kids get away with far more than 20 years ago, so we end up with at least weekly cover on top of an insane workload. I get up at 3am to work, because there is no time in my actual day to do anything, but lessons are expected to be planned to perfection, regardless.

My practical subject increasingly has no money for pupil equipment, and what little we have often gets wilfully broken.

And worst of all, if a child truants or misbehaves, it is seen as my fault for not making my lessons engaging or refusing to keep Johnny in the room after he repeatedly told me to go fuck myself. I cause trouble for having standards and, as a middle leader, for holding my senior colleagues to account.

You aren't wrong! I teach in a private school so luckily can 'teach' as we don't have behaviour problems that have been described etc. We are also not subject to the rigorous paper trails and bureaucracy the state sector do which is so time consuming and draining. However, the way parents speak to us is shameful. Shameful. The entitlement, the vitriol, the lack of understanding. I had a parent physically shout at me and tell me they were 'aggrieved' when their child lost their jumper on day 2 of being in reception. The jumper... was unnamed. And that's a minor 'funny' story I tell people. It's just horrific and I wish I could leave the profession but my own children's education is so heavily discounted and they're so happy at the school that I'm trapped. But it's awful. As a staff we want parents to be made to sign a contract to agree to abide by the behaviour policy, e.g no swearing, no personal abuse, no finding out private information about us and using that against us (once had a parent ask me how I thought I could be a reception teacher when I was medicated for depression. Don't know how she found out I was medicated). But I doubt that'll change anything. Teachers are leaving in droves and people need to take accountability for why that is. You sound like a very fair, sane and balanced human OP! If only everyone was!!

I know a teacher who killed themselves because of the leadership within the school. Bullying in schools is rife by the staff to staff and by the parents to staff and by the children to staff. I wouldn't recommend it. When there are no teachers left then they will have no one left to blame. We'll end up in the same situation as we are with Drs and then ppl will cry and look shocked why it happened when they are to blame.

You're absolutely right. I now work in a girls' grammar school, where the students and staff are great and we have no teacher shortages, but the workload is still ridiculous. I have worked in schools where things are like you describe though.

A family member (in senior leadership, and a good and popular teacher) was essentially forced to leave his school after being suspended for shouting at a 16yo student (with a very long record of misbehaviour including bullying younger students and harrassing staff) for a serious behaviour incident. He then left teaching. The student raised the complaint on the grounds that it had made them 'feel unsafe in school' but was heard laughing and joking about it with friends immediately afterwards.

Some days are good, others not. Yesterday waited 40m for assistance for a fight in my room. It unusual occurrence , but even so. The constant talking questioning staff etc is preventing others from.learnin. The thing is most pupils are pleasant and compliant, It's just an increasing minority as well as some awkward parents who have created little princes and princesses who make life difficult. Added to this the workload and the curriculum.overload, means that that it is virtually impossible to foster relationships with pupils. It's a sad day. I leaving at 56ish.

Pension early and a part time job to supplement it. It a job I have enjoyed and do enjoy but I can't sustain the pace and fall out much longer.

Certainly parents making things difficult has increased A LOT recently.
You often see parents on here doing it, and there is a common thread, that they will not accept their kids being sanctioned for anything. Usually it's nothing outrageous-a detention, and exclusion, a discussion, a meeting. These are all earned process through less than perfect behaviour in school.
But parents are very quick to state what happened and how it is the teacher's fault It stuns me when I read posts like that on here tbh. How do they know what happened? Why is the teacher vilified? Why would a teacher simply invent a detention out of spite when they have such an impossibly heavy to-do list?
Teachers really just want to teach and to support and work with every kid in their cohort.
Yes, there are teachers who leave because of parents blocking them in that goal.

I teach. I absolutely love teaching. I love working with young adults. I do not love having to get up by 4 a.m. every morning to mark or plan for 3 hours before I leave for work because there are not enough hours in the school day. The hours in the school day are taken up by teaching but increasingly behaviour management - rarely of my own students, more and more frequently managing issues around school and from other colleagues lessons. Leaving school at 6pm at the earliest each day. I am exhausted. My own children are more than fed up of this. I cancelled a school event last week to attend one of my own children's concerts and I didn't hear the end of this for days.

@Howdaretheydisciplinerudekids
It's all that & more, unfortunately! I'm currently looking to get out & I'm fortunate to work in a relatively supportive school. Many of my colleagues feel we should wear body cams, like the Police, so that parents can see their little darlings in action.

Been teaching 25 years and quite apathetic now tbh. I’ll most likely retire a teacher but it’s not the most enjoyable job anymore. Last week I found a letter from DS’ school about purchasing tickets for his Xmas concert. I asked why he didn’t give it to us and he replied, “well, you wouldn’t go anyway would you?”. I don’t think either of my children will follow DH and I into teaching. They see how family life is put on hold during term time and how poor the pay is. They see their friends who have “better” houses, holidays and cars and they WFH. I can’t remember the last time I heard a sixth former even consider teaching as a career. I’m guessing we’re at the point where new teachers “fall into” the career, do a few years and leave.

I thinknit does vary from.school to school. Some are absolutely viscious places with crazed SLT and unreasonable workloads. I now have a lovely job in a private school. I work hard, but it is sustainable and I can have a life. The children are generally lovely and I have freedom to really teach. It's been a while since I worked in a comprehensive setting and I don't think I'll ever go back. I value my health and quality of life too much.

I chatted to a very committed teacher recently and was frankly shocked by the levels of violence she is facing on a daily basis. Pupils are just no longer listening to staff at all. The job she described made her sound like a night club bouncer. Except she can't actually defend herself or she would lose her job.

It's utter rubbish to make the ridiculous assumption that parents with kids in private schools must care more about their childrens' education because they pay.

I really hope you aren't a teacher.

4 isn't excuses. It's the reality of the job.
It is also why many are leaving

“I hope you aren’t a teacher” - I definitely judge people who say those words.

Parents need to hope there’s just a competent adult in the room.