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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To let my DS choose where he spends Christmas Day

103 replies

kwilsona · 27/11/2023 10:28

To give a bit of backstory, I have DS10 with my ex. I have very limited contact with my ex as it always ends up with him arguing. He doesn't help with medical appointments, haircuts, homework, contribute towards school uniform, come to parents evening etc.

In the last year he has gone from having DS10 9 nights a month, to 6, and now 4. The most recent reeducation was due to his 4 year old starting school and between the other DC there he can no longer get our DS to or from school. This does mean that even on the weekends he has him I still have to collect him from school on the Friday. DS now goes every other weekend but my ex is a shift worker so sometimes he is at work when he has our DS.

Bearing all of this in mind, DS feels like his Dad doesn't care about him anymore and prefers his new children.

We always take turns at Christmas. One has DS Xmas Eve and then we swap on Xmas Day at lunchtime. This year it's my turn to have him Xmas Eve.

DS has turned round and said he wants to stay with me for all of Xmas this year and see his Dad on Boxing Day instead.

This will not be well received by my ex and I will undoubtedly get accusations of brainwashing DS.

IABU - I should tell DS that he has to go to his Dad's Xmas Day as it is his turn and we need to stick to the arrangement to make it fair.

IANBU - I should tell DS that it is fine for him to stay with me for all of Xmas (as he feels completely unwanted by his Dad).

OP posts:
Original poster
kwilsona · 22/12/2023 21:54

I'm still in exactly the same position but am receiving constant messages that I need to force DS to go, DS is too young to decide and he is not going to accept not having DS on Christmas Day.

I've stopped responding now but I don't see what else I can do other than ignore the messages. I don't see how you can only parent your child 1% of the time then demand to see them on occasions like Christmas Day but maybe I'm wrong here?

OP posts:
OhwhyOY · 22/12/2023 22:13

Have you explicitly told him he feels pushed out? Perhaps if you think he might make more effort to make DS feel loved and valued you could persuade him to go. That said, I suspect based on your updates that he's too selfish to acknowledge tje problem and will just demand what he wants. In which case I'd just reply and say 'I'm not going to force him to go, if you want him to come maybe phone him and acknowledge his feelings and tell him how important he is to you.' If he can't/won't do that then DS is better off not going. Sorry this has been such a nightmare for you, hope you and DS have a wonderful time.

Saymyname28 · 22/12/2023 22:19

I'd literally say "so if DS doesn't want to do what you say you don't want to see him at all, that's gonna help him feel like you care about him."
My dad was like that. I have virtually no relationship with him now. It's his loss.

Singleandproud · 22/12/2023 22:28

Can you and DS go to a relatives for Christmas so that if ex turns up he can't cause a scene.

He is right in that the child's view doesn't tend to get taken into account until they are 12, however you aren't at court and don't have a court order so carry on how DS wants. Hell be 12 soon enough.

Once DD hit 12 she began arranging her own contact with her dad and pretty much only sees him 12-7pm on Sundays. She does choose to go there for Christmas as she has a baby sister there and I'm fine with that as she's grown, doesn't believe and there are no other children in our family so it's more fun there. What I would suggest though is if you do end up in court 12 noon Christmas eve to 12 noon boxing day is much better, it means the child doesn't have to move and be rushed on Christmas day and we've always just recreated the whole Christmas thing later in the week.

RandomMess · 22/12/2023 22:34

Ignore him completely.

There is no CAO so he can tantrum all he wants.

Let him take you to court over contact, by the time it gets there your DC will be another year older and his views and opinions on the situation will be listened to and considered.

User69371527 · 22/12/2023 22:38

no advice really but I feel for you
ive had similar with my girls not wanting to have Xmas lunch with their dad (first year post moving out after separation).
he initially told me I have to ‘fix it’ and if they didn’t come at lunch time, for Turkey, then ‘they’ve made their choice’ and he wouldn’t see them at all and implied they wouldn’t get their presents from him.

I hate feeling stuck in the middle but the eldest 2 are 12 and 15 so really can’t be forced. And they have good reason not to want to go (he got drunk and emotional last year and threw stuff).

i have to be so careful my fear of angering him which I still have doesn’t project onto them and end up me pressuring them to do stuff they don’t want to do.
have stood firm and we are seeing him Xmas eve (me there too) and will offer tea time Xmas day. I even invited him to join us for Xmas lunch with my parents (he doesn’t have any family here) but he didn’t want to

Ghostgirl77 · 22/12/2023 22:45

I would tell your son what his father has said and let him make his own mind up.

Original poster
kwilsona · 22/12/2023 23:04

I have offered Christmas Day evening and overnight but have been told no, only Christmas Day from lunchtime is acceptable.

He is also implying that I'm lying about DS not wanting to go.

I feel stuck. DS is adamant he doesn't want to go. My ex is sending abusive messages making me out to be a terrible parent. What a start to the Christmas holidays!

OP posts:
Singleandproud · 22/12/2023 23:06

Ok so you've told him clearly say in that case DS will see you on X January. Turn your phone off. Perhaps you dropped it and are awaiting a new one. I would still head to a relatives or maybe even to a Premier Inn DS might like that it'll certainly be different.

Original poster
kwilsona · 22/12/2023 23:15

@Singleandproud We'll be at a relatives house on Christmas Day - my ex doesn't know where it is.

OP posts:
dddecide · 23/12/2023 00:08

Just wanted to comment as I've had a very similar issue this year with my dd. Solidarity op, why must they be such absolute arseholes?! In my case, today DDs dad told dd he might not be here next year (basically alluding to killing himself). All in the context of making out it's her fault because she decided not to spend Christmas with him. I'm getting furious again so I'll stop there! My advice is support your Ds in this, and just ignore ex. If he's willing to go without seeing his own child because they've expressed some feelings and preferences then fuck him, he's not worth your son's consideration or love.

Copperoliverbear · 23/12/2023 00:26

Let him stay with you. X

WowOK · 23/12/2023 00:31

kwilsona · 04/12/2023 14:06

Sorry I should have been clearer in that post! I suggested that he have DS Boxing Day instead as they will be at home but he said that it's Xmas Day or nothing.

@FetchezLaVache I've told him this on a couple of occasions now and have been thoroughly dismissed. He made out that DS was being dramatic!

I'd say that's fine. Your next contact day is x. I'm sure he'll look forward to seeing you then. He's choosing to not have contact with his kid. He only wants it on his terms.

ETA: I wouldn't reply to anything that is rude or abusive. You aren't his punchbag. I'd ignore everything until he can be civil.

Tinkerbyebye · 23/12/2023 01:22

At 10 I think if it went to court your ds would be asked what he wanted

in this case he has made it clear why he doesn’t want to go, and youare listening to him

i would simply text back one more time that your ex has reduced seeing him from x to y, that he no longer picks him up from school, that your child feels his father no longer cares about him, which is evidenced by the lack of interaction and that you are not forcing your child to do something he doesn’t want to do because his father won’t listen to him. Then tell him you have told your son he won’t be going boxing day either and he is fine/ upset and you will have another conversation in the New Year about how contact will be set up for next year so perhaps he would like to think about what his son says about feeling his father doesn’t care for him any more and let you know what he decides

He sounds awful

SiouxsieSiouxStiletto · 23/12/2023 08:18

Agree with others. You do Botha e to reply to abusive messages. Ignore them, as hard as that might be might be.

Don't text him again. You've told him DS doesn't want to go in Christmas Day and you've offered Christmas Night and Boxing Day, he's said no. DS will see him next time it's his contact day.

ohdamnitjanet · 23/12/2023 08:28

kwilsona · 27/11/2023 17:02

@YetMoreNewBeginnings No court order in place although my ex has always dictated what contact should be.

Very good time to let your son start dictating some terms then. Let your son stay with you, and have a lovely day together, it’s his Christmas too.

cheddercherry · 23/12/2023 08:29

I was a child of separated parents and tbh there will always be a time if one parent is an arse that a child realises that of their own accord and they get to an age where they know what they will/ won’t put up with from said shitty parent. I wouldn’t force your son to go but I would explain that their dad is likely to be funny about it going forward. From the sounds of it this day was always going to come and you’re going to have less and less sway on encouraging him to see him as he gets older too so I would support him in his decision.

You’ve tried to encourage him to go, you tried to offer an alternative, what are you supposed to do bundle him into the car? You’ve done more than enough and ultimately you can’t force your son to spend Christmas with a man who barely bothers.

user1492757084 · 23/12/2023 08:34

It is not unreasonable for your son to stick with the arrangement. I would not have had him get his hopes up.

He needs to have Christmas with his siblings some years or he will have no shared memories and will feel more left out.

You and your ex need to decide earlier in each year what is happening and stick to it. You both might decide that when he is 16 he decides for himself but you both need to agree.

Goldbar · 23/12/2023 08:47

I don't think the answer is for your DS not to see his dad. I think he's at a bit of a crossroads tbh.

Too many dads, both RPs and NRPs, are always taking the easy option when it comes to their kids and the kids suffer/they lose the relationship.

I think this is one of those moments.

Personally, I'd call your ex and tell him he needs to up his fucking game. He needs to call your DS, make him feel really special and talk to him about some fun things they'll be doing together and how excited they all are about seeing him. He needs to reassure him that it's only a short time and that they'll all try to make it special as a family, which he is very much a part of.

Your DS isn't a parcel to be passed between you and very soon (but not yet, I'd say) he'll be able to make decisions for himself as to where he spends his time. Your ex really needs to up his engagement with him.

I'd ask your ex if he wants a relationship with his son going forward. Because this is one of those moments where, if he does, he needs to invest in it, however inconvenient for him.

Sparkletastic · 23/12/2023 08:48

I think you need to support your DS rather than prioritise ex's wishes. It's a good thing that you will be elsewhere. I'd block ex's number until the new year.

HappyCamperTent · 23/12/2023 08:55

kwilsona · 22/12/2023 23:15

@Singleandproud We'll be at a relatives house on Christmas Day - my ex doesn't know where it is.

Perfect!

Just write a final text stating that DS does not want to go. Then leave it at that.

Daleksatemyshed · 23/12/2023 09:17

In your place I'd be very tempted to text your Ex and tell him a few home truths. Contact with his DS isn't for his benefit, it's for his son, if he'd make an effort for his eldest maybe he'd want to see him.
It's hard to believe your Ex would rather have his own way than see his DC but if he wants to be an arsehole then let him. I hope you and your boy have a lovely Christmas

FluffyChemical · 23/12/2023 10:17

kwilsona · 22/12/2023 23:15

@Singleandproud We'll be at a relatives house on Christmas Day - my ex doesn't know where it is.

This sounds lovely. Have a fab day with DS as he has expressed is his wish. Phone off, enjoy your day, don't reply to abusive messages. You've offered a number of workable solutions, it's a shame your ex has responded that way. You can't control his bad behaviour, only how you react so don't let it ruin your family time with your son Xx

Original poster
kwilsona · 23/12/2023 10:53

I have explained all the reasons why DS doesn't want to go but he's taken no responsibility at all - it's all been blamed on me and DS!

I'm tired of being made out to be a monster for not making him go. He doesn't even know the name of DS' teacher.

OP posts:
SuspiciousSue · 23/12/2023 10:58

It’s only ‘fair’ on the adults to stick rigidly to the arrangements. It’s not fair to your DS to
make him go somewhere he doesn’t want to be.

Your DS is a human being with real emotions, not an inanimate object which you share ownership of. You clearly have built up the better bond with him and if your ex had any emotional intelligence then he’d realise that.

Your DS is old enough to say where he wants to be and it’s with you. Just tell your ex he can take you to court for Christmas access if he wants he won’t and enjoy Christmas.