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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My friend thinks I was assaulted. I don't

136 replies

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 26/11/2023 18:00

A very unpleasant conversation with a friend about a mutual friend took place yesterday. I'd appreciate some help getting my thoughts straight. I feel rattled.

I was having lunch with a gang of old friends yesterday. A mutual friend was mentioned, let's call him Alan. Alan and I were close friends for years since our late teens. We hooked up sometimes during single periods and at one point or another both of us separately broached the topic of giving it a go for real but it was never mutual or the timing was off. I am very fond of him but in recent years haven't seen him in person for various reasons.

In the intervening years my friends at the lunch knew him through different channels. One of them told a shocking story about him. I was utterly horrified and pressed for details. She seems to have the information fourth hand. It's about Alan allegedly having sex with one of her friend's friends when she was too drunk to consent and possibly unconscious (I say possibly as the woman herself is unclear on whether she had blacked out).

To note : I know of this woman and her circle. They are heavy drug users and lead chaotic lives. I've heard a lot of similar stories circling over the years about some of the other men. I've been talking to Alan a good bit online recently and he has stopped drinking completely and hasn't taken drugs in well over a decade. I briefly wondered if this was why.

I was digesting this news and asked who the source was. My friend was unimpressed at my response and asked why I didn't believe it. I said it was hard to absorb, I had never had any indication he could be capable of that. He has always been absolutely lovely to me. We would frequently go out for dinner alone or stay in each others houses.

At that point my friend looked shocked and said he had pretty much done the same to me in our early twenties. I had no idea what she was talking about then I remembered and started to laugh.

Background from twenty odd years ago - I had phoned Alan one day sobbing that I'd been dumped and was heart broken. He said he would be straight out. We went to the local bar and lined up a load of shots on the bar. The usual melodrama of that tine. Neither of us remember finishing them and predictably we woke up in bed together. We were also very embarrassed as we tried to piece together the rest of the evening and kept receiving snippets of info from random people who we had run into.

She said he was preying on me as I was vulnerable. I argued that if anything I took advantage of him and I knew exactly where that night was going to end up. We'd slept together previously. He actually liked me for real as it turned out and had asked me out properly the following week but I turned him down as was pining for my ex. We went back to being friends afterwards and had a couple of flings over the next ten years.

A debate ensued about how we lie to ourselves as we can never accept that we have been a victim. I know this happens but I really don't think I am.

Yabu : he was a predator even then and you are deluded
Yanbu : he may well be a rapist now but that doesn't change what happened in the past - two mates behaving like idiots and no harm done

OP posts:
Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 06:54

Geneve82 · 28/11/2023 06:04

the op had no recollection of it initially during the lunch until the friends mentioned it.

it was the friend who remembered
so obviously the op told her about it twenty years ago!

Edited

Not true. I didn't know what she was referring to as her description didn't match up with mine.

OP posts:
DinkyDonkey2018 · 28/11/2023 07:15

I don't understand what people are confused about. OPs friend is trying to rewrite her experience to say she was assaulted so that it fits with this other woman's experience. It all comes together as gospel that "Alan is a rapist". In reality, why would anyone believe without a doubt that gossip 4th hand is 100% true? That is incredibly naive and dangerous. I'd want to hear this story from the woman herself, and I'm not surprised OP is finding it difficult to comprehend such a thing happened when she herself has a totally different experience with Alan. No we shouldn't dismiss allegations of assault made by people (drug users or not), but it's idiotic to not question chinese whispers, especially when the friend is seemingly trying her best to misrepresent OPs experience to fan the flames of drama and gossip.

Geneve82 · 28/11/2023 07:35

out of interest, are you planning to continue your online chats with him? if he suggested you guys meet up for a coffee and catch up in person, would you accept?

Geneve82 · 28/11/2023 07:37

especially when the friend is seemingly trying her best to misrepresent OPs experience to fan the flames of drama and gossip.

yes, OP you really don’t seem to like this friend very much. you also says she’s one to obsess over detail, and that’s why you think she remembered this one night from twenty odd years ago. all in all - you don’t sound keen on her at all!

sammylady37 · 28/11/2023 07:43

*This is why Fwb is for stupid people only.

Have relationships or one night stands. That's what smart people do. Else you get crap like this*

Eh? FWB are far from ‘for stupid people only’. I’ve been having various FWB set-ups for many many years and they work very well, as long as you are choosy and careful about who you engage with. They’re far safer than random ONS scenarios, and also far more likely to lead to satisfying sex than a ONS.

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 07:48

Geneve82 · 28/11/2023 07:37

especially when the friend is seemingly trying her best to misrepresent OPs experience to fan the flames of drama and gossip.

yes, OP you really don’t seem to like this friend very much. you also says she’s one to obsess over detail, and that’s why you think she remembered this one night from twenty odd years ago. all in all - you don’t sound keen on her at all!

On the contrary, I like her a huge amount. That doesn't mean I don't think she can be mistaken or we can disagree about things.

Our lifestyles are very different and the type of friendships we have with other people are too. That's fine. Her interactions with separate friends often happen at 4am in the morning when everyone is inebriated, confused and oversharing - that wouldn't be typical in my life.

I'm not saying I don't believe a woman who says Alan raped her. I'm saying I don't think he raped or assaulted me. I'm also saying I potentially don't believe this woman definitely made this claim given this story has been passed around. I've witnessed flippancy around these claims before, stated as if it's bad but not an enormous deal.

OP posts:
Zanatdy · 28/11/2023 07:51

I don’t consider that rape or assault and you clearly didn’t so not up to your friend to decide you’ve been assaulted

DinkyDonkey2018 · 28/11/2023 07:52

Geneve82 · 28/11/2023 07:37

especially when the friend is seemingly trying her best to misrepresent OPs experience to fan the flames of drama and gossip.

yes, OP you really don’t seem to like this friend very much. you also says she’s one to obsess over detail, and that’s why you think she remembered this one night from twenty odd years ago. all in all - you don’t sound keen on her at all!

Er, miss the point much Confused

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 07:53

@DinkyDonkey2018 thanks for how you explained that. I agree with everything you wrote except the part that I'm struggling to believe Alan could do this based on my experience. That's actually not the case. I haven't been close to him for years and I wouldn't have known much about many parts of his life. But I don't like my story being twisted to suit a narrative.

OP posts:
Geneve82 · 28/11/2023 07:55

you “like her very much” and yet you say

So my friend has described one of her exes as a rapist who she has to tolerate at gatherings. Another two men have raped a number of the women yet are also stiffly tolerated. She describes it as if she's talking about a person cheating or some other unsavoury activity.

she is prone to obsessing about detail in the past

she is prone to lots of gossip and speculation that you have to let wash over you

and she has friends that do lines of coke at her kitchen table

oh and you’re starting a thread about her

i suppose you and i have very different views on what i regard as people who “i like very much” 🤷‍♀️

DinkyDonkey2018 · 28/11/2023 07:59

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 07:53

@DinkyDonkey2018 thanks for how you explained that. I agree with everything you wrote except the part that I'm struggling to believe Alan could do this based on my experience. That's actually not the case. I haven't been close to him for years and I wouldn't have known much about many parts of his life. But I don't like my story being twisted to suit a narrative.

Apologies, what I meant was that I wasn't surprised in the moment, you were shocked with what she was saying, not that you couldn't believe it ever happened. It's altogether a rather unpleasant situation for you.

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 08:09

Geneve82 · 28/11/2023 07:55

you “like her very much” and yet you say

So my friend has described one of her exes as a rapist who she has to tolerate at gatherings. Another two men have raped a number of the women yet are also stiffly tolerated. She describes it as if she's talking about a person cheating or some other unsavoury activity.

she is prone to obsessing about detail in the past

she is prone to lots of gossip and speculation that you have to let wash over you

and she has friends that do lines of coke at her kitchen table

oh and you’re starting a thread about her

i suppose you and i have very different views on what i regard as people who “i like very much” 🤷‍♀️

So if people don't conduct themselves EXACTLY as you would you end the friendship even if their actions usually don't affect you and they bring loads of positives to your life in other aspects?

Well I guess you and I have very different ideas about friendship.

OP posts:
Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 08:09

DinkyDonkey2018 · 28/11/2023 07:59

Apologies, what I meant was that I wasn't surprised in the moment, you were shocked with what she was saying, not that you couldn't believe it ever happened. It's altogether a rather unpleasant situation for you.

You've got it, exactly.

OP posts:
Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 08:11

Zanatdy · 28/11/2023 07:51

I don’t consider that rape or assault and you clearly didn’t so not up to your friend to decide you’ve been assaulted

Thanks, this is pretty much the crux of it. I'm regretting putting in the information now about the other allegations as it's distracted from my actual aibu.

OP posts:
YorkshirePuddingBelongs · 28/11/2023 08:13

Hmmmm I don’t like fourth hand gossiping it is very dangerous indeed - and I might have to hand in my feminist card but I don’t ALWAYS believe it when people said “My friend’s dog’s cousin’s zebra said he took advantage of her flat mate”.

Re the incident 20 years ago - it’s hard to gauge but if you were both blind drunk it’s unlikely anything happened surely?

Geneve82 · 28/11/2023 08:24

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 08:09

So if people don't conduct themselves EXACTLY as you would you end the friendship even if their actions usually don't affect you and they bring loads of positives to your life in other aspects?

Well I guess you and I have very different ideas about friendship.

but you seem throughly pissed off with her! and a touch more serious than a friend not behaving exactly how you wish….

she obsesses over the past; she gossips and speculates, she has coke taking during the day on her dining table, she thinks she knows better then you about your past experience

i will bow out and hide the thread . i suppose you mentioning the chaotic lives of these other women and how generally you seem to socialise with people you don’t seem to really enjoy the company of… confused me and i have nothing to add that’s going to help you 🤷‍♀️

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 08:28

YorkshirePuddingBelongs · 28/11/2023 08:13

Hmmmm I don’t like fourth hand gossiping it is very dangerous indeed - and I might have to hand in my feminist card but I don’t ALWAYS believe it when people said “My friend’s dog’s cousin’s zebra said he took advantage of her flat mate”.

Re the incident 20 years ago - it’s hard to gauge but if you were both blind drunk it’s unlikely anything happened surely?

Yes I don't automatically believe this but a couple of alarming things are jumping out at me:

  1. Alan has made repeated attempts to meet up with me over the last couple of years. I hadn't seen him for a few years before this except occasionally at a wedding or party. I've been living far away, short on time and our friendship had drifted. So this enthusiasm to see me is unusual.

  2. We have chatted online and I know he doesn't go to pubs anymore as he doesn't drink at all these days.

I have a horrible sinking feeling that these two things are connected to this claim. Does he want to see me as he is very short on company these days? Did he stop drinking as he's finally realises his 'blackout sex' (his perspective) was actually him raping someone vulnerable not able to consent.

I feel ill thinking about it all and torn on what to do now.

Should I forget I heard anything and let our loose friendship die off?
Should I give him the opportunity to put his side across first and say "I heard this... " before cutting him off entirely?
Should I ask to speak to the woman but then who am I to be involving myself?

OP posts:
Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 08:34

@Geneve82 I don't care about a person I don't know taking cocaine. I was saying the drug taking was not a secret.

People who party late into the night do gossip as boundaries are dropped.

She does obsess about the past. So what? We are all different.

I don't socialize with those women. They are her other friends. She doesn't need my blessing on who she spends her time with. I'm sure she would be bored to tears sitting with my mum friends or work colleagues.

Do you surround yourself with carbon copies of yourself?

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 28/11/2023 08:49

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 08:28

Yes I don't automatically believe this but a couple of alarming things are jumping out at me:

  1. Alan has made repeated attempts to meet up with me over the last couple of years. I hadn't seen him for a few years before this except occasionally at a wedding or party. I've been living far away, short on time and our friendship had drifted. So this enthusiasm to see me is unusual.

  2. We have chatted online and I know he doesn't go to pubs anymore as he doesn't drink at all these days.

I have a horrible sinking feeling that these two things are connected to this claim. Does he want to see me as he is very short on company these days? Did he stop drinking as he's finally realises his 'blackout sex' (his perspective) was actually him raping someone vulnerable not able to consent.

I feel ill thinking about it all and torn on what to do now.

Should I forget I heard anything and let our loose friendship die off?
Should I give him the opportunity to put his side across first and say "I heard this... " before cutting him off entirely?
Should I ask to speak to the woman but then who am I to be involving myself?

I don't think him trying to catch up with you when you used to be close to be odd, I'm unclear on why you think this would be linked to him being a rapist or otherwise.

I would think if he's mixing in circles of heavy drug and alcohol use there's plenty of reasons people walk away from that as they mature. It doesn't have to mean that he woke up one day, realised he was a serial rapist and quit drinking.

Of course it might be, you just don't know.

Could you approach him online and say look, I think you should know there's a rumour that X years ago, you and your friends were drunk and you had sex with one of the women whilst she was unconscious. See what he says.

ocarinaflow · 28/11/2023 08:49

Are you actually the friend, @Geneve82? Your posts are all so pointless, every single one of them lol

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 09:50

@SleepingStandingUp you speak a lot of sense. It's something about the timings. Him potentially being dramatically ousted from a group then making repeated attempts to arrange a catch up me. I haven't met him alone for years, maybe even a decade. I can't remember the last time honestly. He was so keen that I was feeling a little guilty but I had so much going on. Then I was going to be local to him with some friends he knows and I invited him. I was quite surprised he said no but he was very definite that he doesn't drink and feels uncomfortable in those types of situations. It was quite a dramatic about turn.

OP posts:
Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 09:53

ocarinaflow · 28/11/2023 08:49

Are you actually the friend, @Geneve82? Your posts are all so pointless, every single one of them lol

I don't think she's my friend but her posts are so tedious; constantly trying to catch me out - on what I don't know.

OP posts:
Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 10:01

But yes @SleepingStandingUp I am almost definitely putting 1 and 1 together and getting 78. It's all such a shock. I'm going to ask him.

It is also possible nobody has said this to him directly and an intermediary person has related an inflated version and this will cause a showdown.

If there's a fallout and my friend says I should have kept my mouth shut I will not back down an inch. Calling someone a rapist casually is not on and I will sever my friendship with lunchtime person. If he says yeah but it wasn't exactly like that, it's all a bit of a grey area I will obviously stay far away from him forever and hope she presses charges. I feel sick at the thought.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 28/11/2023 15:06

IDK if you have considered this possibility but if things are kicking off, Alan might at some point want you to repeat everything that's been said, or even act as a character witness for him. So have a think about how you want to handle that before you meet him.

Bigbirthdaycomingup · 28/11/2023 15:46

I don't mind repeating things that have been said. I don't know how much use I'd be as a character witness given I've spent very little time in the man's company over the last half decade.

OP posts:
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