To think that this government are at war with disabled people and always have been?

[MyopicBunny]

I am assuming that the part of their UC that will be cut is the disabled element? Most people can’t even get this at all if you are disabled. The rules to receive it in the first place are extremely strict.

Why us nobody talking about this? Has our society now become brainwashed with the idea that it’s acceptable to call disabled people with significant needs benefit scroungers?

Why is it the most vulnerable being shat on from a great height, over and over??

I don’t think you understand how statistics work.

If ‘number of disabled people’ is ascertained by looking at ‘number of people claiming disability benefits’ then clearly those two figures will always correlate- they will rise and fall together.

in other countries ‘number of disabled people’ is ascertained by some other thing, say ‘number of people in care home’ or ‘number of people on medication’, then those numbers will correlate.

This doesn’t prove causation- this statistical analysis does not show that we have more disabled people because we give disability benefits, it just shows how we happen to have measured the data. It doesn’t show any causation at all.

It's another way to kick disabled people. Govt knows full well there are not thousands of unfilled remote working jobs that disabled people can suddenly decide to do. If these jobs existed, there would be fierce competition for them, for example from parents looking for flexibility.

Whilst I agree with you OP that these changes are terrifying (as someone who receives LCWRA and PIP) they are not set to come in until after the next election so may never happen.... fingers crossed this useless lot get booted out of office!

I don't know - perhaps for the same reasons the government/taxpayer take "responsibility" for health, with the NHS, state education, benefits generally, pensions and a variety of other things.

Its called collective responsibility for those needing help and support.

HTH.🙄

This government are at war with the working British people and always have been. Full stop. Unfortunately so have all governments for the last 50 years, and yet another u-turn from the New New Labour government this morning does not engender confidence that the trend will change. Over my life I have seen a country that at least tried to be democratic and meritocratic, and practice the values of freedom of speech, freedom of information, inclusivity, equality and informed consent to the rule of law be utterly destroyed. In its place are the values of exploitation to make money for the wealthy, and the values of aggression and the politics of social and wealth connection. We are back in the days of Imperium.

Yes, my DB (56) was turned down for PIP a few years ago, despite having suffered from severe MH issues for 30 years and having no hope of getting a job. He was only awarded it on appeal, which wouldn’t have happened if my DM hadn’t made it happen for him.

Very true.

So many people don’t understand the nuance of statistics and think ‘number up=X’ and ‘number down =Y’ and don’t realise (or care to realise) that there are a number of factors affecting statistics.

My brother is one such statistic- 10 years ago he was beaten unconscious with a crowbar on the street-

he was left with a traumatic brain injury that caused major memory loss. He lives alone- He can’t use a cooker for example because he will forget that the hob is on and cause a fire. He can’t drive safely or take journeys outside the couple of streets round his house because he gets lost and can’t get home. He can’t remember appointments, times, peoples names etc.

Basically he can’t function beyond going to the corner shop for a ready meal and microwaving it or popping two doors down to his friends house.

When was he awarded PIP and finally found unable to work and awarded the benefit the government now wants to cut? 2 weeks ago. It’s taken 10 years for the assessors to accept that someone who basically has dementia can’t get up and off to work on the bus on their own, and accept that no one will employ someone who can’t even remember that they have a job, never mind do said job.

The reason it's so bad is largely because the government won't actually provide any help with preparing for, finding, or keeping those jobs. Particularly the preparation stage which might involve time training/getting qualifications etc. If their aim was to get disabled people into work this is what they'd focus on.

Instead they will just say that people should be able to do some mythical work from home job (or job where other reasonable adjustments can be made) and remove their benefit entitlement on that basis, whether they can find one of these jobs or not. Plunging people into dire poverty on top of their existing issues, pushing them even further from the workplace, worsening their health issues.

It's NOT about getting disabled people to work, it's about getting disabled people off benefits.

I should point out that Universal Credit (which replaced all previous out-of-work benefits including disability-related ones) can be claimed whilst in work, with earnings reducing benefit in such a way you're almost always better off working. This is a lifeline for disabled people who can only manage part-time work. Cutting UC for disabled claimants will affect these people who are clearly trying their best to work.

Out of interest (and somewhat taking notes for my own situation!) how did you get your work from home job? Has it always been WFH or did you attend a workplace initially to prove yourself before WFH was granted? What qualifications did you need - and how did support yourself financially whilst getting these? How did you get references - were they from jobs working outside the home? How did you convince employers to see past large gaps on your CV and jobs lost due to your epilepsy? If there were no lost jobs - why not? Did you manage to work for long enough that you couldn't easily be dismissed, did you have jobs that had flexible hours or where it wasn't a huge problem if you needed time off sick?
What I'm trying to understand is how a disabled person can go about getting past all these barriers and find a suitable job - I suspect it's a lot easier if you become disabled later on in life with a good work history and/or already in a job where adjustments can be made.

Where are all these entry level work from home jobs? I googled out of curiosity and it was either a pip assessor or translator.

@FelicityFlops because we live in a society where we all do things for each other, otherwise it doesn’t function.

I presume you mean ‘I work and pay income tax therefore I am entitled to take from the state- disabled people who are unable to work don’t pay income tax (although they do pay all other types of tax, and may well have paid income tax in the past) therefore they don’t deserve to take from the state’

So, able bodied person A works and pays income tax (and vat, national insurance, possibly inheritance tax, council tax etc). Person A

is born in a hospital (£££ from the state),

goes to school (£££ from the state),

drives on roads (£££ from the state)

goes to the park (£££ from the state)

goes to the leisure centre (£££ from the state)

benefits from the police and legal system (£££ from the state)

has kids born in a hospital (£££ from the state)

has subsides child care (£££ from the state)

they go to school (£££ from the state)

takes them to feed the ducks in the park (£££ from the state)

and so on.

The money person A pays in income tax no where near covers her cost to the state. It only works because everyone pays what they can so that everyone benefits.

Disabled person B pays council tax, vat, inheritance, national insurance etc. Maybe doesn’t have kids? Maybe was privately educated etc… could well turn out to be a smaller net cost to the state than person A.

So, it’s a pointless argument (because you have no idea who is a net contributor or net cost to the state overall), and it’s a shitty point of view because able bodied people are not of more value morally, ethically, socially or in any other way than disabled people.

We all contribute what we can and take what we need. Sometimes people take the piss with this… corporations not paying taxes for example, criminals stealing from other people as another example- but the principle remains the same despite these anomalies.

I don't see why I should work dammed hard all my life and pay taxes so someone with 'anxiety' or 'depression' can stay at home and be funded.
It's simply not fair.
It's like a 'glass back'. Can't be unproven.

The Government are going to help these people to find work
What is so wrong with that? .
Why does it have to be at home?

They are not going to help them... they are going to threaten them with poverty.

No they are not XenoBitch.
They are insisting that those that are able to work , do work.
That is extremely reasonable.
Why are they my responsibility?

They are cracking down on those who are disabled or say they are disabled yet could still work and not be funded to stay at home. This is not being aimed at people with disabilities who are unable to work.
The issue is you can’t prove whether people have or have not got many disabilities and mental health issues and the figure for those claiming benefits has sky rocketed

@yellowspanner if the government were indeed going to help people find work, that would be great. But they aren't. They're going to punish people for not finding work by taking their money away and pushing them deeper into poverty.

If they wanted to help people into work, they would be:

• Investing large amounts of money into funding excellent physical and mental health services so that people with health issues didn't have to spend years on waiting lists getting worse and worse
• Investing large amounts of money in helping people with disabilities access training of all kinds to upskill them and equip them for work
• Push through legislation enabling employers to employ disabled people and people with health conditions so that they would be able to stay in work even if their health issues meant they couldn't attend work as reliably as people without those conditions - this could be through flexible working, job shares and tax incentives

But they are not doing that. They're just saying 'well, they can work from home or we'll take their benefits away'. Which will just push more people back onto hospital waiting lists and cost the taxpayer money. It's typical short term ill thought through bullshit that Tory voters will just lap up because they are unwilling or unable to see the complexities of the problem.

You best hope you never become disabled or ill then…

So many people claim to have 'mental health issues'. It's only in the last ten years that this has happened and the increase coincided with the increase availability of benefits.
People no longer expect families to help and support. It's all down to 'the government".
No wonder the country is broke.
Where do you think all the money is coming from? A magic money tree!

I think that's more likely what they'll do @pointythings

Considering the bad reputation of some of the people administering UC and the inefficiencies involved, and even tiny things made sanctionable, apparently. I'm not surprised people are afraid of what might be in store.

OK, this post is full of what is known in the business as 'alternative facts'.

Benefits are far less available now than previously. The assessments are more stringent, the awards less permanent, the checks more constant and the investigations for fraud more persistent.

There has been an increase in mental health diagnoses for two reasons. Firstly an increase in incidence of mental health illness. Secondly an increased awareness.

Denial of mental health illness is usually based on prejudice.

It isn't due to happen until 2025
We will have a change of government before then.

Evidence for your statements, please? Prevalence data for rates of mental ill health is available, so please link to that.

When did the 'increase in the availability of benefits' happen in the past 10 years under a Tory government? I'd like some evidence for this statement too.

This government certainly seems to have had a magic money tree to shake for giving bungs to their mates...

on principle the idea of supporting disabled people to access jobs they can do such as wfh which happens widely rather than write them off as unable to work at all is a good thing?

It's really not a good thing that it is assumed all people with disabilities need is to be able to work from home. It ignores the complexities of individual conditions and assumes that disabled people don't need anything to access work other than a chair in their own kitchen and a laptop. It sees disabled people as one big, homogeneous group with nothing much at all to overcome. It ignores the fact employers don't want to employ people who regularly need the afternoon off for hospital appointments (think chemo, dialysis, blood transfusion....).

It is terrifying.

And where will these completely remote jobs come from? They don't exist, or far far from the numbers needed. There's big competition for the hybrid jobs too.

what would happen if you are on ESA support group and migrate after 31st december 2024 do you get re assed or like now take your award with you and get tran protection