To think Europen governments need to respond to immigration?

[Finlesswonder]

So the Netherlands is going to have a far right government.
Sweden has moved to the right.
Finland has shut its borders.
Countries that have traditionally been liberal are hardening and irrespective of the many issues listed its to do with immigration.

Ireland has seen violent protests last night following a series of stabbings.
In the UK we obviously had Brexit.

I think governments need to start responding to voters feelings on immigration as if they don't we will continue to see a general slide to the right in Europe, when actually these countries aren't right wing: it feels like a single issue is distorting the entire political landscape?

I think the OP is right, especially in the light of the 2022 net migration figures of 750K for the U.K.

While we may benefit from their cheaper labour costs, they still add to the pressure on housing, benefits, schooling, healthcare etc. Yes I know they pay taxes, but generally low amounts if at all.

I may be wrong, but I expect the conservatives to take a harder line, and will be rewarded for it in the next election, they seem better at reacting to the national sentiment, than how people think in North London.

This!

Imagine suggesting as some have that migration should be limited to women only, or young men only. So Tom can move to Spain, but has to leave his wife of 15 years behind? Hilarious thinking

This is just not true.
Large parts of southern Europe were Muslim until the middle ages - that was what drove the Crusades
There has always been movement of people who are being persecuted e.g. the Jewish diaspora in Roman times
There has always been movement across empires from colonised countries
And in prehistory there were waves of migration that we can track in our genetics.

Humans are a species that move around, there's really no such thing as "indigenous" in Europe, its a fiction people tell themselves to justify their innate xenophobia

This is a good post, sums it up well

this government are actually in charge of the migration policy and 1.2 million people entered the U.K. legally in the last two years. That's not on a bunch of North Londoners who aren't in government, it's Tory policy.

Change it, okay. But don't give them credit if you think migration is an issue. It's never been greater.

Here, this is interesting about diversity in Romanbritain

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/classics/warwickclassicsnetwork/romancoventry/resources/diversity/evidence/

See also the Mongols who conquered their way from the Far East to Europe.

The whole idea that Europe never faced mass immigration is ludicrous. I thought it was commonly accepted that human life began in Africa. Literally everyone in Europe is descended from someone who migrated here. That's why it's so important to stop it happening now.

You need to support your thinking with facts.

For one, The largest contributor to non-EU immigration (39%) was study. Students paying 3x as much as home fees. What benefits are they claiming? They in fact heavily subisidize home student fees.

No one chooses to read the entire report. The number of people emigrating out of the UK long term was 508,000 in the same period.

I really hate the way anyone opposed to the importation of violent people from cultures that have no respect for women, other religions, minorities, homosexuals are always smeared as "far-right". Surely it is these ideologies that are "far-right", not the politicians or voters who are opposed to such things?

I think our government need to stop spouting rubbish and should start recognising that we need immigration to staff our health and social care sector. My fs is cared for by people who have come into the country on visas like this. They are kind and hard working. They are badly needed by this sector. The government know this and yet here we have Robert Jenrick trying g to prevent these visas being issued. This shows they are using immigration as a political football rather than considering what our country needs.

I was talking about the last 100 years, not the middles ages.

People only care about recent history,

'We'll take your hard labour for the benefit of ourselves but your kids can fuck off.' What a way to attract the brightest and best to Global Britain.

What I don't get is why after decades and decades of huge emigration, the Internet, a more globalised world, countries outside Europe haven't started thinking "hmmm, maybe those guys have got something, maybe we should create secular democracies too".

I also don't buy that "the west" is responsible for financial and political instability that creates mass immigration outside Europe. Don't these countries have governments?

only ignorant people care about recent history. You can't pick and choose what suits your narrative.

It is "far right" to generalise immigrants as "importation of violent people from cultures that have no respect for women, other religions, minorities, homosexuals".
That's a disgusting thing to say.

These are human beings who choose to come here for a variety of reasons, not objects we are "importing". And there is no evidence they are more violent than the population in general, or that they will somehow change the culture here to align with the culture they are leaving behind.

importation!!!!! they are people not chattels!

That’s absolutely not true for the South Eastern part of Europe.

They were occupied by the Ottoman Empire, but it was not until the Middle Ages and these parts were Christian.

I think it's just ignored how much blood and war there has been in Europe to get where we are. These nice liberal democracies are in most cases in Europe maybe less than 70 years old. The idea that Europe is always like that is to ignore the history. And perhaps immigration isn't all about business but what sort of society you actually want.

Of course you can. You can't go back to the start of time. You have to be reasonable.

A lot of people don't even know what happened before they were born let alone the middle ages and I wouldn't expect them to know any more than 100 years.

Because religion is the only was to control the masses. A lot of people in those countries are uneducated.

Serbia and Albania will not get the vote they need to join anytime in the next twenty years.

Despite what anyone here might say.

Ukraine's application looks like it's about to stall hard and fast due to financial and political reasons (posted about this last night on the Ukrainian thread).

I would support that @Finlesswonder!

Increased migration is the current Governments policy.
They have increased visas.
They will continue to increase visas.
They know it increases tax take and they need trade deals.

Blaming increased levels on 'north London' is ridiculous. Look to Westminster if you want answers.

The real failure is the Government telling voters one thing whilst doing something else.

It's not the west who have done this. Many of the migrants come from countries where the Wagner group has a presence. Putin is stirring up trouble in order to destabilise the west.

Well, financial and political instability hardly started yesterday. Much of it stems from centuries of plundering by European colonisers, so yes in many respects, the west is to blame for a lot of instability in the world. Look at the current mess in the Middle East. Thanks Britain.

Now those countries that were not colonised in the last few hundred years don't have the same excuse and ought to have their ducks in a row.