I don’t want to pay less National Insurance, I’d like a better funded NHS

[CormorantStrikesBack]

🤷‍♀️

obviously I appreciate I’m in a position to think that, but I’m not on a huge wage. I’m glad if it helps people who are struggling but I’m also worried about the nhs, school funding, etc.

They don’t seem to be managing now, I can only imagine it will get worse. There are councils going bankrupt and cutting services, respite care, libraries, etc.

id rather carry on paying what I’m paying than risk such services been funded even less.

I want a better NHS but before it gets any more money it needs an overhaul. Six figure diversify roles, rainbow lanyards, anything that’s not about delivering a high standard of clinical care needs stripping out before they get another penny of public money. And this is true of so many areas.

Government spending is generated by the central bank, they create the funds for the year from nothing. Treasury revenue simply goes towards paying down what is effectively an overdraft Government owes itself.

How would sending extra money to the Treasury ever make a difference to Government spending priorities? (which are clearly primarily to enrich themselves and their mates from public funds)

There's more than enough money to fund the NHS, it's just being funneled through unaccountable private companies into private hands. One of many examples here of a few billion going out of system https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/16/private-firms-harming-nhs-patients-by-failing-to-deliver-medicines-lords-report-warns

Our last chance to rescue it went at the last election, not one of the major parties will cut out the cancer that is profiteering from healthcare.

There is already far too much waste in the NHS - the last thing it needs is more money!

HB. That isn't where money is wasted, you've been watching too much Gbeebies haven't you?

The OBR have said that fiscal drag will bring in an extra £44.6bn each year by 2028-29. That's plenty to throw on the NHS money bonfire and hand £60 a month back to the workers funding it.

Pie

https://ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_total_spending_pie_chart

I wondered what people would be saying about this budget and I'm glad to hear your position OP. I completely agree. I'm not very well paid currently and our mortgage is doubling in Jan, so 2024 is looking very hard indeed. But even so, I'd rather see investment than cuts.

People complain about the state of our services but then crave lower taxes. It's madness. You only have to look at Scandinavian countries like Norway and Denmark to see what higher taxes can achieve - namely an equitable country where public services actually work.

@AutumnCrow

Class 2 [£3.45 per week!!] has been abolished and Class 4 will be reduced from 9% to 8% I believe

We don’t have hypothecated taxes in the uk - NI is no different to any other tax, it’s just called something different. All tax (including NI) goes into one ‘pot’ snd the government decides how to spend it.

Well it is a cut I won’t benefit from and presumably the loss of revenue will mean the services I can’t even access will continue to get worse. The NHS is fucked without reform and pouring more money after bad won’t help either.

'Hypothecated' is a wonderful word.

I have just been writing something and used 'exegesis'. Now I want to use 'hypothecated' as well.

@CormorantStrikesBack

The sad thing is that we need an absolutely vast increase in taxes to fund services. It could be biased so that those of us who can afford it will pay more The Tories will never do that.

Very nice! I have to confess to having to look that one up. Lovely word snd I agree hypothecated is a cracker.

Well I work through an agency so have to pay my personal NI and the employers NI! (Still don't fully understand why!) so any NI cut is welcome news for me.

Things like the NHS aren't properly funded whether we pay more/less/the same. It appears to make zero difference. So yes, I'm happy to save some money personally.

Having been a tax advisor for many years before retiring, abolishing Class 2 makes sense. It's collection is complicated by the technology and lack of integration and its such a small amount, it make sense to abolish it.

However, the big issue is, the self employed received some state benefit credits, Inc the major one the state pension, from Class 2 or by paying Class 2 Voluntarily. There needs to be a ruling on how they will now qualify for these credits.

I suspect its in the budget small print because everyone knows this so it shouldn't have been overlooked. But it may well be that the whatever the new rules are they lose out or it costs them more. So, it's not to be celebrated, until.this is clarified.

Childish response.

We can all see how Covid has damaged childrens education, how we don't have enough to fund DV refuge's or fix the RAAC issues.

Yet we ve billions to hand out £3 or £4 a week to the average worker, the price of a coffee per week.

Lol!

Tories have raised taxes by 55 billion per year but are handing back less than a 3rd of that.

Yes your Jackanory is what the Tories would like to fight the next election on but its a lie.

@Ohmylovejune

However, the big issue is, the self employed received some state benefit credits, Inc the major one the state pension, from Class 2 or by paying Class 2 Voluntarily. There needs to be a ruling on how they will now qualify for these credits.

It's already been sorted. Like low paid employees, carers, parents of young children, etc., the self employed get a "credit" towards state benefits whether they pay class 2 NIC or not as long as they earn (and declare on their tax return) their profits over the lower NIC threshold. It changed last year when the threshold for actually paying NIC was increased - "credits" are automatically given even though NIC is not paid for those with profits declared over the lower NIC threshold. So no "ruling" required - it was sorted last year!

It’s significantly more complex than higher taxes = more revenue, tax cuts = less revenue.

Tax cuts can generate more for the economy, and thus actually lead to increased tax revenue. Competitive tax rates attract investment and job creation, for example. Capital is mobile, and ever increasing taxes don’t merely fail to attract investment, but chase it away. By decreasing the pool of net contributors (and this happening. It isn’t case that people are threatening to leave and staying to pay up, they are leaving. There is a net outflow of millionaires from the UK), you’re increasing the burden on those without the means to shoulder it.

@user1497207191

Good news. Thanks for clarifying the change.

i Am no economist, so I have no basis for this other than my little utopian world in my head.
surely in the long run better funded services works out cheaper in the long run?

better nhs = fewer sick days (yes I know the unintended consequences of people living longer). Earlier interventions to prevent things, better education and initiatives on health like sure start.

better schools = better educated children, on to higher wages jobs which also links into social care below.

better child social and mental health care = less addicts, less uncared for children (which is a long term saving on generational issues). Which means less crime

better funded police & judiciary service = actual work on prevention, more intervention early on to stop escalation to worse crime. Less people in prison, more time for decent rehabilitation and opportunities to prevent reoffending.

better funded elderly care = prevention of hospital stays and therefore Health deteriorating as a result of that. More time with each client meaning they are supported to eat, bathe etc which helps in the long term. It also enables family to continue to work, so more taxes.

and if all that creates jobs in the public services, than more jobs are better, more taxes, more fulfilled people, less mental health issues, less crime. More opportunities

This 💯 percent.

And councils not to have to cut essential services

And the very wealthy to pay their fair share

And environmental protections

and freedom of movement in Europe

Except you don’t get nic credits in this circumstance. So your pension will be affected.

Yep, instead of saving me £35 a month I’d rather they properly funded our council rather than them go bankrupt and dh go through redundancy. Bonkers.